QB Conundrum

[Icege]

11 minutes ago, Toomers said:

Now, put up this years numbers and compare. Then you will see the difference. You think Teddy has anywhere near 73 deep shots? And 31 to the left, 36 to right. You think maybe he saw a weakness in the Clemson DEF in that game. Seems to have worked. 

Ok.

Kinda looks like they're cutting the field in half again while keeping most plays within 10yds of the LOS. Let's see if Teddy's charts look like he's gonna have a lot of short to intermediary passes with a few deep shots sprinkled in.

 

*gasp* It does! :o

[kungfoodude]

29 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I doubt it retracts, especially if vaccines look to be widely spread prior to football season. A lot of teams will be fuged against the cap if it does. It may not increase and even that would be a significant strain for a lot of teams since they operate under he assumption of an ever increasing, but I don't see a retraction coming.

I suspect it will retract. TBD. 

[kungfoodude]

23 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

I think we end up tagging Moton as well. Give it another year and see where we’re at after this draft and off season. Letting him leave this off season isn’t an option.
 

We won’t be able to afford to keep Samuel. Paying a WR3 like Samuel isn’t a luxury we have. I’d argue I’m not sure any team has these due with cap restrictions. 

I think that depends on the market for Samuel. I am of one of two opinions, I don't like that the light has seemingly clicked during his contract year but I also can't ignore that he is playing the best of any of our WR's up to this point in the season. 

We need to find a way to keep Samuel, even if it means paying more than we'd like.

[MasterAwesome]

Lol Joe Brady must be a huge dumba#@ to have worked with Bridgewater in New Orleans for a year, had access to film of every snap Bridgewater has ever played in the NFL, and then made sure to go out and get him this offseason, and then realizing that he doesn't fit the offense he wants to run.  Jesus, we should fire Brady immediately if he's that mind-bogglingly stupid.

[Toomers]

Just now, Icege said:

Ok.

Kinda looks like they're cutting the field in half again while keeping most plays within 10yds of the LOS. Let's see if Teddy's charts look like he's gonna have a lot of short to intermediary passes with a few deep shots sprinkled in.

 

*gasp* It does! :o

What Burrow does with the Bengals is irrelevant.  Unless Brady is running that offense too. Compare the years of Brady as OC. Teddy this year vs Burrow last year which you’ve used as an example. 
 

 As the numbers I posted showed, and the specific comment he wasn’t a Checkdown Charlie. What are Teddys numbers? 

[Toomers]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I suspect it will retract. TBD. 

It’s set at 175M next year. After that could be anything but next year is set. 

[Icege]

Just now, Toomers said:

What Burrow does with the Bengals is irrelevant.  Unless Brady is running that offense too. Compare the years of Brady as OC. Teddy this year vs Burrow last year which you’ve used as an example. 
 

 As the numbers I posted showed, and the specific comment he wasn’t a Checkdown Charlie. What are Teddys numbers? 

Already posted the passing charts. All you have to do is look to understand rather than look to refute.

The attempt to refute "Checkdown Charlie" uses 18yd+ air throws that converted to TDs (20+ yards is the metric). If we look at the amount of total attempts, which the passing charts show, then we see he threw it short a lot. Please note, and this is especially important for anybody else that doesn't know football, that a short pass is not a checkdown. A checkdown is a short pass to a target that is the last option when all others are covered. It is called this because a QB has "checked down" his list of targets, not because the ball goes down short in front of him.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Toomers said:

It’s set at 175M next year. After that could be anything but next year is set. 

It's not set, they reached an agreement on a "floor" which was $175 mil, which would be a retracted cap from the 2020 salary cap($198.2 mil). 

It is POSSIBLE that it could go up from $198.2 mil but I believe part of that agreement was to spread the "COVID hit" out over three seasons to lessen the impact of the cap situation. Either way, it is likely to be less than 2020. That's not devastating news for the Panthers, we have some room to maneuver. It could very well put some other teams in very, very, very bad spots.

[Icege]

Ultimately, this whole debate comes down to 5 groups.

• 1.) Folks that believe you get the QB first and build the team's offense around them, even if it means selling the farm
• 2.) Folks that believe you get the team built first so that a QB can be placed in the offense without having to do it all
• 3.) Folks that are fans of the individual college QB prospects and are focused only on their fandom
• 3.) One or two posters that somehow believe that Teddy has shown enough to be the franchise guy
• 5.) Emotional Cam stans that hate living in Wilmington almost as much as they hate themselves

[Toomers]

1 minute ago, Icege said:

Already posted the passing charts. All you have to do is look to understand rather than look to refute.

The attempt to refute "Checkdown Charlie" uses 18yd+ air throws that converted to TDs (20+ yards is the metric). If we look at the amount of total attempts, which the passing charts show, then we see he threw it short a lot. Please note, and this is especially important for anybody else that doesn't know football, that a short pass is not a checkdown. A checkdown is a short pass to a target that is the last option when all others are covered. It is called this because a QB has "checked down" his list of targets, not because the ball goes down short in front of him.

I can’t see Teddy’s so I’m not trying. I’ve known who he was/is and nothing has changed. You posted Burrows numbers easily. You can’t for Teddy? Why not? 
 

    And when you coached at a SEC level, you can lecture me on check downs. Until then, just deflect with charts. 

[Toomers]

6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

It's not set, they reached an agreement on a "floor" which was $175 mil, which would be a retracted cap from the 2020 salary cap($198.2 mil). 

It is POSSIBLE that it could go up from $198.2 mil but I believe part of that agreement was to spread the "COVID hit" out over three seasons to lessen the impact of the cap situation. Either way, it is likely to be less than 2020. That's not devastating news for the Panthers, we have some room to maneuver. It could very well put some other teams in very, very, very bad spots.

I would bet 50K that it will not be higher than 175. The owners are losing a lot this year and aren’t going to give it back. Especially when next year could be the same(I hope not).

There a reason that OTC has already changed it to 175. 

[Toomers]

10 minutes ago, Icege said:

Ultimately, this whole debate comes down to 5 groups.

• 1.) Folks that believe you get the QB first and build the team's offense around them, even if it means selling the farm
• 2.) Folks that believe you get the team built first so that a QB can be placed in the offense without having to do it all
• 3.) Folks that are fans of the individual college QB prospects and are focused only on their fandom
• 3.) One or two posters that somehow believe that Teddy has shown enough to be the franchise guy
• 5.) Emotional Cam stans that hate living in Wilmington almost as much as they hate themselves

6. Don’t give a crap if Teddy is great or not, but told everyone that you spent 21M/ yr. on a QB expecting him to be something he wasn’t. And now when it actually happens, laughing .at all the excuses. 

[Varking]

43 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Let's not gloss over the CMC injury this year lol, he's by far our biggest offensive threat.  I know it's a small sample size, but in the two games he has played from start to finish, we've scored 30 and 31...two of our top three highest scoring outputs this season (31 against the Cardinals as well).  For better or worse, our offense runs through CMC...let's not pretend this is some huge mystery or coyly present this as some indictment on Teddy like "Hmmm...wonder why our offense seems pretty comparable to last year!  Teddy = Kyle Allen?!? HMMM!!!".  Sure, Mike Davis has filled in respectably...but come on, let's be real.

Also, I like Joe Brady a lot but he clearly still has a learning curve for playcalling (particularly when it comes to the red zone).  He seems to be improving, but some of our red zone struggles absolutely has to be pinned on him when no one is getting open down there in many cases.  The way you talk about Brady in threads regarding how he's clearly being limited by Teddy is really strange...you're treating him like a proven 10-year veteran superstar playcaller.  He doesn't have the qualifications and experience and proven track record in the NFL to be deserving our blind deference and trust.  Not sure if you were just a big fan of him at LSU last year or what, but the NFL is a different animal.

I believe any playcaller is limited by Teddy. There is only so much that can be done. He’d be an awesome backup to have help out in a pinch but he shouldn’t be our starting QB. Brady has work to do as well as a playcaller but Teddy also misses reads and wide open receivers because he goes to the check down as his first read. 

[MasterAwesome]

18 minutes ago, Varking said:

I believe any playcaller is limited by Teddy. There is only so much that can be done. He’d be an awesome backup to have help out in a pinch but he shouldn’t be our starting QB. Brady has work to do as well as a playcaller but Teddy also misses reads and wide open receivers because he goes to the check down as his first read. 

Is there a single QB in NFL history who doesn’t occasionally miss reads and open receivers ? That’s a strange criticism. I don’t know of any evidence to suggest Teddy does this more or less than other QBs, but if you have that, I’d be interested in seeing it.

Saying he goes to his check down as his first read is odd considering Moore and Anderson are on pace for ~1200 yards each with Teddy under center, which is pretty remarkable.