How NFL executives view Rhule

[Varking]

5 hours ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

At the risk of repeating myself, I don't see how pointing to the way a fictional hedge fund is run on tv is a very strong argument for the way an NFL franchise that happens to be owned by a hedge fund manager is run in the real world. I haven't watched Billions extensively, at best I've seen a few clips on youtube, but I don't really need to watch a lot of it to know asserting it is predictive of how a rl sports franchise is run is a thin argument at best. 

You may or may not know why writing naked puts is a bad idea, who The Human Pirhana is irl, why Lewis Raneiri could be considered the grandfather of the housing market collapse or what the tax law change that made leveraged buyouts much less profitable and feasible after the 80's was and why Kolberg Kravis and Roberts forced out founder Kolberg.

Whether you do or you don't, these things have about as much bearing on how the Panthers are actually run as how flat Appaloosa is as an organization and who is responsible for generating the returns (inevitably it's the traders, but asking me for specific titles from a tv show I don't watch is like asking Rhule if he can coach the next game in Chinese. He can't but it doesn't matter.)

Which is to say, not at all.

The point that matters here is not how Appaloosa or Axe Capital is run, but that Tepper may or may not run his sports team in a similar manner.  If you can point to some specific information, perhaps an interview where he says something along the lines of "We ran things this way at Appaloosa and I've decided that model would work well for the Panthers." that would indeed be useful information and a strong argument. But simply pointing at a tv show and using that as the basis for your assertion of how the Panthers are run because the tv show is about a hedge fund and Tepper ran one, that's not a premise I'm going to accept on it's face.

That poster is just trying to be a jerk to you. Not worth giving them thought out replies at this point. 

[1of10Charnatives]

On 11/15/2020 at 2:10 AM, SizzleBuzz said:

"naked puts"...

...LOL. 

PS...how would you describe Mafee's role within the organization?  Dollar Bill?  And Wag's?

 

reading comprehension fail or deliberate trolling. You’re doing one or the other. Either way no longer wasting my time with this convo.

[Mr. Scot]

On 11/14/2020 at 11:21 PM, 1of10Charnatives said:

Yes I'm fully aware of how hedge funds are run, but when I mentioned concrete information I didn't mean pointing to the way a fictional character behaves in a tv show about a hedge fund as evidence of how things are actually functioning in the real world with the management of our sports team....

That ranks right up there with using Madden ratings to evaluate players.

Arguably, it's even worse.

[SizzleBuzz]

On 11/16/2020 at 12:02 PM, Mr. Scot said:

On 11/14/2020 at 11:21 PM, 1of10Charnatives said:

Yes I'm fully aware of how hedge funds are run, but when I mentioned concrete information I didn't mean pointing to the way a fictional character behaves in a tv show about a hedge fund as evidence of how things are actually functioning in the real world with the management of our sports team....

That ranks right up there with using Madden ratings to evaluate players.

Arguably, it's even worse.

Funds like Appaloosa (and Axe Capital) are typically quite flat and organized in a simple pod-like structure.  Pods are generally industry-based (financials, tech, industrials, energy, etc.).

These pods of investment professionals are responsible for generating the returns (think wins & losses) that define a fund and determine its success, or lack thereof.  Think of these folks as the football operations side of the business -- the part that generates the wins & losses.

Mature funds also have some HR people, investor relations folks etc, and often a COO-type (Wags) to manage non-trading/investment related aspects of the business.  Think of this part as Tom Glick, the ticket "concierges" some of you have mentioned, the game day operations folks, etc...put another way, not related to on-field football ops.

Virtually all the successful funds also have a founder/owner who is present daily, constantly monitoring just about everything, and acting on behalf of the fund...just like Axe.  Tepper/Appaloosa, Loeb/Third Point, Einhorn/Greenlight, Cohen/SAC, Ganek/Level Global, Balyasny/Balyasny AM,  Englander/Millenium,  etc...are good real-life examples.

These guys are all super-type-A workaholics with massive brainpower and joking aside, always the smartest guy in the room (except when they are all in the same room!) --- and all are control freaks.  (well Izzy is actually pretty laid back, but still a control freak)

Within the pods there are really only 3 job functions --- PM (Mafee & Dollar Bill), analyst (Taylor), and trader.  That's it.

PM's have varying amounts of authorization in terms of how much firm capital they manage (referred to as a "pad") within their pod -- analysts and traders have no discretion/authorization at all, their job is gather, analyze, and share information, and execute when directed to.  (to be fair, on rare occasions some analysts are given a small pad to manage at their discretion just to test them)

While most PM's do have a degree of discretion virtually none will ever make a trade that will materially impact the overall returns/worth of the firm without fully vetting it with and getting buy-in from the founder/owner (Tepper) --- wrong without vetting/buy-in from Tepper, you're dead.  Wrong with the full approval/partnership from Tepper, you can live to fight another day.  PM's do trade around existing positions and make other smaller trades at their own discretion, but these are not material to the firm on the whole.

Again, no significant amount capital at Appaloosa is/was ever put to work without Tepper's explicit approval --- he's overlaid the same operating model onto the Panthers.

Within the Panthers there is only one industry-vertical (football players & coaches) and there are only 2 PM's, and they are co-PM's...Hurney & Rhule.

Hurney & Rhule are free to trade around certain existing positions (fringe players, special teams players, etc) and fiddle with other non-material trades (practice squad, strength coach) but they will never make a material trade (higher draft pick, cut the long-term QB, commit $33M guaranteed to the new QB, big contract to new O.C., etc) without the full participation of and approval from Tepper --- this is the model that made him one of the wealthiest men in the great United States of America and it's one he's sticking with.

The balance of the football operations are people (coaches, scouts, trainers ,etc) under Hurney & Rhule who are functioning as analysts (Brady could be a Junior-PM)...sucking in, synthesizing, and packaging up information for Hurney & Rhule & Tepper to use in the decision making process.  The process is collaborative and some of the analysts have a seat at the table with Tepper/Hurney/Rhule --- but Tepper always retains veto power.  (the Tre Boston contract is troublesome, how that one made it through the vetting process is perplexing...possibly Tepper was on his honeymoon)

As for Tepper himself, he's different, so don't compare him to meddling owners like Jerry Jones.  While he's not particularly good looking Tepper's analytical skills run circles around Theo Epstein and there's also the f*** you money that's a party to the situation, don't underestimate the power of said money   (keep an eye on the Metropolitans, genius new sheriff in town there too)

From a football operations and wins/losses perspective I believe Tepper is teeing this thing up for a loooooooong stretch of very very successful on-field results...

...just be patient. 

The business/sponsorship side of the operation is more questionable but the reality of it is even if that doesn't go well he has the checkbook to handle it --- time will tell.

 

"I am not uncertain."

             -- "Dollar" Bill Stearn --

 

 

        

[iamhubby1]

    I'm sorry...but that right there is how you end a thread.

[SizzleBuzz]

On 11/15/2020 at 7:05 AM, Varking said:

That poster is just trying to be a jerk to you. Not worth giving them thought out replies at this point. 

So I provided a detailed response and...

...crickets.  

Nothing?

[SOJA]

Rhule has been great, combine him with an actual franchise QB and we are good to go

[SizzleBuzz]

42 minutes ago, SOJA said:

Rhule has been great, combine him with an actual franchise QB and we are good to go

Who do you recommend?

 

[SOJA]

On 11/17/2020 at 7:57 PM, SizzleBuzz said:

Who do you recommend?

 

Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields that would have required us tanking though, which apparently "TeDDI IS GUD" crowd thought we weren't going to do, now were just doing it in a piss poor fashion 

[SizzleBuzz]

15 hours ago, SOJA said:

Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields that would have required us tanking though, which apparently "TeDDI IS GUD" crowd thought we weren't going to do, now were just doing it in a piss poor fashion 

My question is who do you recommend now?

Lawrence & Fields are not in the set of possible outcomes...

...so who is attainable that meets your expectations?