Nfl draft lottery

[stbugs]

1 hour ago, TheCasillas said:

NFL teams don’t intentionally tank. They are just poorly managed or coached. NBA is a joke to compare to because one player can change a franchise. Nfl is far from that. 

Some have. Jets are trading away players just like Miami did. Also, tanking is more about not signing FAs or trading top players for picks (like Minkah, Tunsil and Adam’s), not intentionally losing games. When Indy had Peyton hurt, they didn’t sign a Rivers to be a stop gap, they let Painter lead them to Luck. Technically, we could have done the same and let Grier be Clausen or Weinke.

By the way, I recall my idea of a full rebuild be poo poo’d using Miami as an example of a tank go bad. Well, with Tua, a 5-3 record (top 4 in points differential) and Houston’s 1st and 2nd round picks they are sitting pretty right now (picks 7, 21, 39 and 53). I’d have no problem having a young promising QB along with enough picks to basically build a great OL before the 3rd round.

[Snake]

Dallas Cowboys would get the first pick every year. No thanks. 

[Ricky Spanish]

Tanking is oh so efficient. 

I mean after all those years of sucking, the Browns turned it around and became a perennial playoff team due to all their high draft pi-

Oh wait never mind. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

2 hours ago, jfra78 said:

As Hornet fans, haven't we been fuged over by the draft lottery enough?

They got ripped off because they needed a buyer for the New Orleans team.  I found it amazing coincidental that they got the top pick over Carolina and they chose Davis.

The Hornets have never had the #1 pick though they have been in the lottery more than they have been in the playoffs. 

Do not want to see that.  Too easy for the lottery to be rigged. 

[stbugs]

57 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

Tanking is oh so efficient. 

I mean after all those years of sucking, the Browns turned it around and became a perennial playoff team due to all their high draft pi-

Oh wait never mind. 

Dolphins seem to be doing OK. We had two Super Bowl runs after Clausen and Weinke years. Colts got Luck and three straight 11-5 seasons after Curtis Painter led them to 1 or 2 wins. Cowboys seemed to do pretty well after being poo and getting Aikman due to 1-15.

There’s a lot more bad teams that have turned things around. The Browns aren’t the only team and let’s be honest, there has never been a string of inept 1st round picks than the Browns. They almost had to try and pick the worst players to avoid the talent that was there. There string from 2011 until a few years ago was amazing. Take 2014, picks 5-17 including Khalil Mack, Mike Evans, Zack Martín, OBJ, Aaron Donald, Moseley, Barr and others. 12 of those 13 went to pro bowls, most went to several. Cleveland too Justin Gilbert at 8. Not only was he the only one who didn’t go to a pro bowl, he didn’t even start a single year. So while there are multiple future HOFers in those 13, they picked the only one to not even make it through his rookie deal with 2 teams.

The Browns are the exception that proves the rule. You want to know the best part about people bagging on the Browns and how we should be bad or try to get a top pick, here’s their record since Marty took over as the full GM (I don’t count 2017 because Gettleman ran the draft and FA):

Browns: 18-21-1 after 4 wins in 3 years

Marty’s Panthers: 15-26 after making playoffs 4 of 5 years

So glad Rhule and co took over the draft and one can only hope they look at getting a new GM for the future.

[Ricky Spanish]

1 minute ago, stbugs said:

Dolphins seem to be doing OK. We had two Super Bowl runs after Clausen and Weinke years. Colts got Luck and three straight 11-5 seasons after Curtis Painter led them to 1 or 2 wins. Cowboys seemed to do pretty well after being poo and getting Aikman due to 1-15.

There’s a lot more bad teams that have turned things around. The Browns aren’t the only team and let’s be honest, there has never been a string of inept 1st round picks than the Browns. They almost had to try and pick the worst players to avoid the talent that was there. There string from 2011 until a few years ago was amazing. Take 2014, picks 5-17 including Khalil Mack, Mike Evans, Zack Martín, OBJ, Aaron Donald, Moseley, Barr and others. 12 of those 13 went to pro bowls, most went to several. Cleveland too Justin Gilbert at 8. Not only was he the only one who didn’t go to a pro bowl, he didn’t even start a single year. So while there are multiple future HOFers in those 13, they picked the only one to not even make it through his rookie deal with 2 teams.

The Browns are the exception that proves the rule. You want to know the best part about people bagging on the Browns and how we should be bad or try to get a top pick, here’s their record since Marty took over as the full GM (I don’t count 2017 because Gettleman ran the draft and FA):

Browns: 18-21-1 after 4 wins in 3 years

Marty’s Panthers: 15-26 after making playoffs 4 of 5 years

So glad Rhule and co took over the draft and one can only hope they look at getting a new GM for the future.

I personally have no problem with "tanking" in the NFL. There are so many more variables in the NFL than the NBA that it is no guarantee that sucking will net you the best possible player. There's 11 players (per team) on the field at the same time and they all have to work together to get the job done. Can't go 1 on 1 like the NBA where individuals can completely dictate and guarantee victory single handedly. Even if you do draft a once in a lifetime talent, you still have to surround that talent with a solid supporting cast. 

All the variables that the NFL entail (Increase injury risk, more people playing at the same time, positional value, salary cap, etc.) make the Lottery a poor decision for the NFL. 

[Mr. Scot]

Yeah, sorry. I hate this idea and always have.

[MHS831]

I have never seen a team in the NFL lose on purpose to get higher in the draft.  I just do not see it as a problem.  Fans can hope--but players and coaches make money by winning every time they take the field. 

[MHS831]

3 hours ago, stbugs said:

Some have. Jets are trading away players just like Miami did. Also, tanking is more about not signing FAs or trading top players for picks (like Minkah, Tunsil and Adam’s), not intentionally losing games. When Indy had Peyton hurt, they didn’t sign a Rivers to be a stop gap, they let Painter lead them to Luck. Technically, we could have done the same and let Grier be Clausen or Weinke.

By the way, I recall my idea of a full rebuild be poo poo’d using Miami as an example of a tank go bad. Well, with Tua, a 5-3 record (top 4 in points differential) and Houston’s 1st and 2nd round picks they are sitting pretty right now (picks 7, 21, 39 and 53). I’d have no problem having a young promising QB along with enough picks to basically build a great OL before the 3rd round.

Now, the front office might tank, but the players and coaches do not--in my opinion.  Miami even won games to screw up the front office tank.

[TheProcess]

No thanks!  Teams like the Panthers would get screwed over just like the Hornets. The Hornets never get lucky, then in a year with a blah draft, they move the Hornets up so they can use this year as their "proof" they don't shiw favoritism. In a lottery, teams like the Cowboys, Steelers. Patriots would always benefit

[TheProcess]

19 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Now, the front office might tank, but the players and coaches do not--in my opinion.  Miami even won games to screw up the front office tank.

Yes, and the Panthers kind of remind me of Miami last year.  Just like Miami last year, the Panthers came into the season with perception of having the least talent and rookie coaches. However, just like Miami last year, the Panthers hired a very good coach and staff. Just like Miami, the good coaching has overRHULEd the attempt at tanking.

[TheCasillas]

4 hours ago, stbugs said:

Some have. Jets are trading away players just like Miami did. Also, tanking is more about not signing FAs or trading top players for picks (like Minkah, Tunsil and Adam’s), not intentionally losing games. When Indy had Peyton hurt, they didn’t sign a Rivers to be a stop gap, they let Painter lead them to Luck. Technically, we could have done the same and let Grier be Clausen or Weinke.

By the way, I recall my idea of a full rebuild be poo poo’d using Miami as an example of a tank go bad. Well, with Tua, a 5-3 record (top 4 in points differential) and Houston’s 1st and 2nd round picks they are sitting pretty right now (picks 7, 21, 39 and 53). I’d have no problem having a young promising QB along with enough picks to basically build a great OL before the 3rd round.

There is a difference between intentionally tanking, and salvaging the franchise. Teams do not go into a season (like the NBA) to intentionally lose.

[stbugs]

1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

Now, the front office might tank, but the players and coaches do not--in my opinion.  Miami even won games to screw up the front office tank.

Agreed, but their trading for draft picks did work and they still got the guy who was likely the #1 pick pre-injury. That’s why it’s weird when people act like there’s some losing culture like players aren’t trying hard and they’ll get that ingrained into their soul. It’s just about realizing there’s maybe some solid QB talent in the draft and saying I’ll start Weinke/Clausen/Weeden/Grier/Painter knowing that they won’t win games versus signing a Cam or Rivers or Foles or Bridgewater.

Miami did win some games but they also got unlucky in the schedule. They beat the Jets and Cincy and in the last week beat a clearly not so good Pats team that got shellacked by Tennessee in the playoffs first round. Much easier for us to “tank” in our division playing the NFC North and AFC West.

[stbugs]

14 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

There is a difference between intentionally tanking, and salvaging the franchise. Teams do not go into a season (like the NBA) to intentionally lose.

What does salvaging the franchise even mean? No players and coaches go into the season trying to intentionally lose. That’s been covered ad nauseam. Lots of teams in the NFL and NBA do trade away some talented players for picks and also abstain from paying $$$s for FAs (like Miami had done and then splurged this year with a rookie QB deal). Call it tanking or salvaging, doesn’t matter. Those teams know they aren’t competing. We’ve spent a ton on FAs the past 3 years. This year was a weird one where we let go a bunch of guys but still kept some dead weight and over spent on some guys.