Are we content with what we're getting from Derrick Brown

[*FreeFua*]

3 hours ago, AU-panther said:

What are you basing Chinn on?  Number of tackles?  In that case Boston is our 3rd best player on defense.  Don't get me wrong, I like Chinn, and he is flying around being active and getting alot of snaps, but he has struggled at times in both the run game and the passing game.  

Number of tackles by themselves aren't the best metric to evaluate a player, they are highly dependent on position and scheme.  For example if a different guy was playing his position would the number of tackles changes greatly?  What you are looking for is the quality of tackle?  Is he making the tackle a step slower than an average player?  a step quicker?

How does that compare to all DTs?  

It is?  How does that compare to all NTs?  what percentage of the time is he lined up at 1T vs 3T?  Without that info its hard to really decide if that is good or not.

People around here really don't understand the idea of double teams.  A lot of those times he isn't getting double teamed because he is so great, its because of the alignment.  1T are often the natural double team on a 4 man front, so whether its Brown or some random guy playing the spot the double team is going to happen there. 

This is one reason a lot of teams don't spend high draft picks on 1t, regardless of how good they are they still get doubled teamed.  An average 1t gets doubled and he doesn't get to the QB, an above average 1T gets doubled and still doesn't' get to the QB.  Either player same thing happens.  Why spend a high draft pick if the same thing is going to happen.  An elite 1T on the other hand gets doubled and still gets to the QB a decent amount.  That is what you spend a top 10 pick on or sign to big money.  Soaking up doubleteams in itself isn't worth a top 10 pick or a big contract.

Also they have him at the 3T often.

Furthermore people need to go pull up a list of how often most DTs get double teamed and you might be surprised.  There are plenty of DTs that get double teamed just as much if not more than Brown that are as productive if not more.

Don't get me wrong, I like Brown and Chinn, and I expect both of them to turn into quality players, but people are severely overstating how well they are playing this well. Like most rookies they need time.

 

 

I don’t even...

Talk about not having a clue, yikes.

[micnificent28]

3 hours ago, SetfreexX said:

I can't even believe you said this after getting a first hand look at Poe, AS A PANTHER dude wasn't even over 30...

Who gives a poo about a 40 time on a NT...''WATCH THE FILM'' 

I'm basing it off a poe that hasn't lost his explosiveness to injuries... yes I said it cause it true. You want to compare a rookie to a guy that's 30 and lost years to injuries.

[Mvp2014]

10 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

I'm basing it off a poe that hasn't lost his explosiveness to injuries... yes I said it cause it true. You want to compare a rookie to a guy that's 30 and lost years to injuries.

Poe's best year was his rookie year.   I'd rather have the consistent player that can take the punishment every play than someone who half asses most plays and tries on passing plays for stats.  I'd bet Brown will become a much better pro than Poe ever was

[Basbear]

5 hours ago, MHS831 said:

I am so surprised how well we are stopping the run.  No KK, No Star, No Poe--just Brown, Roy, and Kerr for the most part. We have 1 linebacker.  Our CBs are weak tacklers, but teams struggle to run on us.  You do not see what he does, but Brown does it well.

I am also totally impressed with the person.  This is a guy you build around.  Great pick.

Ive heard this before, many coaches believe that stopping the run is a mindset. Of course you got to have talent, but mainly its effort, pain, and training/practice.  

[Basbear]

3 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

He is our run stopper and has the second most QB pressures of any rookie outside of Young who wasn’t there when we picked. What’s not to like?

No idea how anyone with a IQ above 65 can be upset with DB. bizarre indeed... 

[Panther Believer]

19 hours ago, Captain Morgan said:

PFF

 

@PFF

Most QB pressures by rookies: 1. Chase Young - 17

2. Derrick Brown - 13

3. Javon Kinlaw - 12

4. Tershawn Wharton - 11

Also, Kinlaw was selected at 15 if I'm not mistaken. This just proving we didn't reach or anything like that. Also you must think, if we didn't draft Brown we would have been in deep doo doo for a while with KK short being out for the season again and just performing very meh lately even when healthy. Practice squad players could've gashed us for 150 yards on the ground for a while. Instead we have a young guy developing for the future while also being able to let go of KK and save a big chunk of money that we can spend to get a good 3T pass rusher in FA or use elsewhere to retain someone like Curtco.

[Panther Believer]

19 hours ago, Eazy-E said:

He and Burns get doubled quite frequently and are still get a good amount of QB pressures. Put a decent 3 tech next to Brown next season and watch what happens.

THIS. If the colts don't resign Grover Stewart (they'd be stupid not to) and we signed him with the money we save cutting KK, this D line will be a PROBLEM.

[MHS831]

3 hours ago, Snake said:

He's not a 3 tech player and if you watched you would know that. He plays the A gap or 0 tech most downs. His job is to disrupt the line and take on two guys. So to awnser you in a way for you to understand. He has to beat two people sometimes 3 every play to get pressure so yeah that's pretty good. Especially since that's earned mostly on two downs. 

And I do not see movement when 2 guys are trying to move him----If we had a good LB or two....

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, Basbear said:

Ive heard this before, many coaches believe that stopping the run is a mindset. Of course you got to have talent, but mainly its effort, pain, and training/practice.  

Coaches lie to their players all the time. Of course you want high effort, but if those other guys are just plain better and they're playing with high effort too... well, you're screwed.

[Mistuh Jones]

Imagine Brown with a really good sidekick at DT, which I'm sure the Panthers go after this offseason. It's a WRAP once that happens and YGM grows more. 

[Mistuh Jones]

8 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Did you read the thread before posting? Most people are happy with Brown.

It's still splitting hairs for the sake of boredom. We've already had mad threads on this topic as well. It's not a new angle, it's just boring. 

[TheSpecialJuan]

21 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

About midway through the season and im curious how the huddle feels about our defacto number 1 pick. When the National media is latching more so onto our second round pick.  My stance hasn't changed. If your drafting to ten you want a guy who is a superior athlete who can be the quarterback, protect the quarterback or get after the quarterback(skilled position players are weighed differently).

Brown shows promise in the run game. It was his defining traits we knew he was country strong and would be good to go there. But I was solid on the promise he would develope a pass rush repertoire and would be an asset there. Naturally running a 5.0 40 made me question that, would have been enough to say the overall athletic profile isn't there to be a asset in this department. We have seen even on passing downs brown comes out and they like to sub in guys.

My question to you guys are you content with getting a space eater with a top 7 pick?

Monumental bust 

                               - PFF

[cmichd08]

5 hours ago, cmichd08 said:

For a 7th of the 1st round you should expect him to be on the field more than just 1st and 2nd downs.  Maybe next year he will improve on this pass rush to become more of a 3 down player.  If he doesn't improve then no way can you give him top money when his contract expires.

 

[MasterAwesome]

8 minutes ago, cmichd08 said:

 

^ so you’re telling me he only plays on 1st and 2nd down and STILL is second among rookies in pressures? Impressive.