Line building

[SmokinwithWilly]

18 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

Little seems to have been really bottomed out due to injuries (particularly concussions) and that you just can't plan for. Jeff Otah back in the day looked like a perfect road grader but then the knee went and there went a first rounder. Can't hold injuries against the drafter or the player.

Now Grier... I think that was a flyer on Cam maybe not being the same player he was or in case of injuries. Then Grier couldn't even win second string in camp against a UDFA. Then he actually took the field and he was worse than we imagined. Wow, there were some warning signs there (and better choices available) but man, how did the guy end up sucking that bad... did Rivera and Co. just toss the kid some coloring books and let him self babysit instead of practicing him?

No GM can forsee injuries. But Otah was thought to have motivation issues similar to KB which were known before the draft. Little was never thought to be aggressive and especially after the combine considered to be extremely raw. It why he started sliding. He was pick 16 if Burns was gone. Regardless of concussions, that's horrible tunnel vision on a player.

What you can hold against the drafter is the ability to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of the class. Little's class was considered fairly weak for starting LTs but strong for IOL. At the same time, this year's class was predicted to be strong LT early 1st and weaker IOL. So it would have made sense to draft interior last year and LT this year if you wanted to build the line.

That's why I think we didnt go IOL this year, Rhule knew it wasnt strong. Having brought in Okung LT wasnt as an immediate need as DT. That's why we passed on the IOL. Next year is supposed to be a better overall and I think we address it then in the draft. 

We could have been set on our line if Hurney wasnt always in win now mode. Lack of vision for the future has always been his greatest weakness. Rhule and Hurney are totally different philosophies in team building which is why I think Rhule was responsible for this years draft. Drafting the strongest players at positions of need instead of projects or gut feelings. 

Grier was just a ??? pick. Everyone knew he was going at 100. We had a thread here a month before it happened. 2 players Hurney locked eyes on and wasnt going to move away from regardless of being able to actually improve the team. 

Winning teams have GMs who have the ability to build a team. We have one who can nail drafting in the top half of the first because we had another season of broken dreams built on a feeling. 

[PantherOnTheProwl1523]

Saints released their 2020 draft pick Tommy Stevens(pick stolen from us by Arseface) and would we bring him in on practice squad. With our coaching staff we could possibly get him on the roster. 

[AU-panther]

21 hours ago, stirs said:

Panther fans resemble management.

We need more weapons!

EVERY year at the combine, multiple threads about wanting the fastest guy, never fails.  Very shallow fan base, or, they want to be Jacksonville forever

This ^ every year this fan base complains about the O-line during the season but once draft season starts they talk themselves out of it.

Few reasons for this I think, O-lineman are boring to draft, they don't' score, they don't make noticeable plays usually unless they are bad plays, and they don't get sacks or turnovers. 

Also if you are talking about tackles they tend to always be over drafted so they are seldom value picks.  Last year was actually a good year for tackles, several were rated in the top10 range where we were picking.

Honestly though, how many would have been happy with us taking Becton or Wirfs instead of Brown?

My philosophy with O-line would be:

Tackles:  you either pay top dollar for a FA or be willing to spend early draft picks on them.  If you find one, keep them.

Guards and Centers:  These positions are usually a little easier to find in the draft.  I wish would use more picks in that 3-5 range on them.  One reason I hate to see us miss out on comp picks or wasting picks on trade ups.  Also vet guards tend to be pretty cheap in free agency.  There always seem to be a few that get released late in the offseason.

 

 

 

 

[SmokinwithWilly]

4 hours ago, AU-panther said:

This ^ every year this fan base complains about the O-line during the season but once draft season starts they talk themselves out of it.

Few reasons for this I think, O-lineman are boring to draft, they don't' score, they don't make noticeable plays usually unless they are bad plays, and they don't get sacks or turnovers. 

Also if you are talking about tackles they tend to always be over drafted so they are seldom value picks.  Last year was actually a good year for tackles, several were rated in the top10 range where we were picking.

Honestly though, how many would have been happy with us taking Becton or Wirfs instead of Brown?

My philosophy with O-line would be:

Tackles:  you either pay top dollar for a FA or be willing to spend early draft picks on them.  If you find one, keep them.

Guards and Centers:  These positions are usually a little easier to find in the draft.  I wish would use more picks in that 3-5 range on them.  One reason I hate to see us miss out on comp picks or wasting picks on trade ups.  Also vet guards tend to be pretty cheap in free agency.  There always seem to be a few that get released late in the offseason.

 

 

 

 

I was fine with taking a top tackle. I did a mock with us trading down and taking Becton at 19, but this was before his stock started to really rise. We need to address the oline. We might not have to rely on our defense so heavily if our offense, especially our QB, had time and the blocking to produce. 

[thefuzz]

On 11/11/2020 at 8:29 PM, SmokinwithWilly said:

I was fine with taking a top tackle. I did a mock with us trading down and taking Becton at 19, but this was before his stock started to really rise. We need to address the oline. We might not have to rely on our defense so heavily if our offense, especially our QB, had time and the blocking to produce. 

I preferred a top T to the top DT...but that's just me.  Didn't have a specific tackle in mind, but if the two were equally graded, I'm taking the offensive tackle over the defensive tackle every time.

[Mr. Scot]

FYI: Based on Joe Person's comments in The Athletic Q&A, it doesn't sound like Greg Little's going to get a shot at another position. He said the staff has "little faith in Little" and called that "an indictment" of Hurney given that he traded up for him.

[thefuzz]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

FYI: Based on Joe Person's comments in The Athletic Q&A, it doesn't sound like Greg Little's going to get a shot at another position. He said the staff has "little faith in Little" and called that "an indictment" of Hurney given that he traded up for him.

I've long waited for anyone in the organization to hold Marty accountable for his awful personnel moves....I'm not going to get excited about this.

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I've long waited for anyone in the organization to hold Marty accountable for his awful personnel moves....I'm not going to get excited about this.

Don't want to get my hopes up, but Person sounds like he's viewing Marty as a transitional figure right now.

Hurney is signed through next year's draft, though Person thinks it's possible he might get a short extension. He characterized that as a way for the Panthers to groom someone internally (likely Pat Stewart) or take a little extra time to get somebody they want.

He does acknowledge though that they could potentially just move on from him to Stewart or somebody else at the end of this season. Also said he could be downgraded to something like a consulting role.

[crowntownpanther]

On 11/10/2020 at 2:32 PM, ImaginaryKev said:

Which offensive lineman would you have preferred over McCaffrey, Moore, Burns, and Brown?

Good Point

[DaveThePanther2008]

On 11/10/2020 at 10:32 PM, ImaginaryKev said:

Which offensive lineman would you have preferred over McCaffrey, Moore, Burns, and Brown?

I love all those first round picks and wouldn't change a pick.  The problem is we never address the O-line until the 4th or 5th round..  Or if we do we draft guys that other teams are avoiding.   You can't keep missing on linemen in the 2nd and 3rd round.  

Hurney sucks at drafting O-lime.

[SmokinwithWilly]

17 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

I love all those first round picks and wouldn't change a pick.  The problem is we never address the O-line until the 4th or 5th round..  Or if we do we draft guys that other teams are avoiding.   You can't keep missing on linemen in the 2nd and 3rd round.  

Hurney sucks at drafting O-lime.

Not just drafting O-line. Let's not forget the magic that is Paradis at center or Daryll Williams at LT. Those 2 moves alone secured our future and set us back 3 years in building a competent line. 

[cmichd08]

On 11/10/2020 at 2:32 PM, ImaginaryKev said:

Which offensive lineman would you have preferred over McCaffrey, Moore, Burns, and Brown?

He is starting at RT for TB but I would have taken Wirfs over Brown.  I would have taken Tyler Biadasz in the 4th over Pride.

[cmichd08]

On 11/10/2020 at 2:36 PM, ImaginaryKev said:

Going forward we should definitely address it but the tweets above make it seem like we should've drafted O Lineman instead of our other best players, so just wondering if that's the question or is it just overall dissatisfaction with where o Line is as far as team priority? I wouldn't pass on any of the first round picks we've made in recent years but I definitely think we need to open the wallet on better quality guys. This coming off-season Joe Thuney is a FA, let's give him a call. We also might have an extra third rounder? Would be a good idea to spend an early pick or two, maybe

you can get good DT in the middle rounds as you can OLine.  Yes we had needs no doubt.  We had a chance to start building the OLine in the last draft.  They decided to go cheap on the OLine.

 

[electro's horse]

i mean the panthers do spend a ton of draft picks on offensive linemen, and they do it within the first three rounds generally.

Hurney just fuging cannot draft o line to save his life.