Why is everyone so hard on Teddy?

[raz]

57 minutes ago, KSpan said:

Commenting in applicable topics is not 'going out of my way to criticize' - that's the point of a message board, no? To share opinions? 

To your premise the Chiefs also did jack in the playoffs those years, including blowing a 28 point lead to the Colts, which is the whole freaking point that you inadvertently continue to support. They built the roster with Smith at QB (who also at one point went 21 straight games without throwing a TD to a WR) and he couldn't get it done year after year, so they got Mahomes and made it over the hump.

I'm not saying that KC knew Mahomes would be this good; I'm sure they had confidence but tough to see something like this coming. However, they were confident that Smith's play was at least replaceable and they took a shot to improve a weakness that got them a Super Bowl.

Sticking with things I'm not saying, nowhere have I said Carolina needs to draft a QB in this upcoming draft and nowhere have I said that Carolina missed out on a guy this year (though I would have been fine with drafting one). If they decide to stick with Teddy then fine, but the data thus far do not seem to support such a decision and they would appear to be choosing to limit the offense and chase that unicorn roster. No thanks.

 

you typed all that out just for it to not make any sense at all.  was that on purpose?

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, raz said:

you mean joe staley?   just stop

That'd be Joe Thomas if you're talking about the guy who originally said it.

And yes, it's a legitimate question.

[Icege]

47 minutes ago, KSpan said:

Commenting in applicable topics is not 'going out of my way to criticize' - that's the point of a message board, no? To share opinions? 

To your premise the Chiefs also did jack in the playoffs those years, including blowing a 28 point lead to the Colts, which is the whole freaking point that you inadvertently continue to support. They built the roster with Smith at QB (who also at one point went 21 straight games without throwing a TD to a WR) and he couldn't get it done year after year, so they got Mahomes and made it over the hump.

I'm not saying that KC knew Mahomes would be this good; I'm sure they had confidence but tough to see something like this coming. However, they were confident that Smith's play was at least replaceable and they took a shot to improve a weakness that got them a Super Bowl.

Sticking with things I'm not saying, nowhere have I said Carolina needs to draft a QB in this upcoming draft and nowhere have I said that Carolina missed out on a guy this year (though I would have been fine with drafting one). If they decide to stick with Teddy then fine, but the data thus far do not seem to support such a decision and they would appear to be choosing to limit the offense and chase that unicorn roster. No thanks.

The Chiefs missed the playoffs once in Alex Smith's tenure as the starting QB and never once did they have a losing record. They had a complete roster and had the luxury of being able to jump up and get their franchise QB. No matter how much you try and spin this, that's the fact. This is a night and day difference between the Panthers current situation and what the Chiefs had when Mahomes was available.

Folks here keep saying that Teddy Bridgewater is basically Alex Smith, and then follow that up by saying his play will keep us from winning the big one while also preventing us from drafting our franchise QB...... when the Chiefs drafted their franchise QB with Alex Smith succeeding as the starting QB? What?

I'm expecting to hear "STOP THE COUNT! KEEP COUNTING!" at this rate with how contradicting that narrative is.

Nobody is saying that Teddy is the franchise QB for the 2020s, and if they are they are wrong. Nobody is saying that we can't try and improve the QB position through the draft., because we definitely can (it's a matter of how much do you hamstring the rest of the roster chasing after that one position). As I said in my original post in this thread, we have two different types of fans when it comes to how they believe a team should be assembled: One group believes you do anything necessary to find and install a franchise QB; another group believes that you do anything necessary to fill out the entire roster to put the franchise QB in a position to succeed whenever in position to go get them.

Personally, I don't believe in throwing everything at one position that is "good enough" while in year 1 of a new coaching staff that has churned the roster. There's too much else that needs to be done to worry about spending an entire draft on moving up for Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields imo.

[CanadianCat]

19 minutes ago, Icege said:

The Chiefs missed the playoffs once in Alex Smith's tenure as the starting QB and never once did they have a losing record. They had a complete roster and had the luxury of being able to jump up and get their franchise QB. No matter how much you try and spin this, that's the fact. This is a night and day difference between the Panthers current situation and what the Chiefs had when Mahomes was available.

Folks here keep saying that Teddy Bridgewater is basically Alex Smith, and then follow that up by saying his play will keep us from winning the big one while also preventing us from drafting our franchise QB...... when the Chiefs drafted their franchise QB with Alex Smith succeeding as the starting QB? What?

I'm expecting to hear "STOP THE COUNT! KEEP COUNTING!" at this rate with how contradicting that narrative is.

Nobody is saying that Teddy is the franchise QB for the 2020s, and if they are they are wrong. Nobody is saying that we can't try and improve the QB position through the draft., because we definitely can (it's a matter of how much do you hamstring the rest of the roster chasing after that one position). As I said in my original post in this thread, we have two different types of fans when it comes to how they believe a team should be assembled: One group believes you do anything necessary to find and install a franchise QB; another group believes that you do anything necessary to fill out the entire roster to put the franchise QB in a position to succeed whenever in position to go get them.

Personally, I don't believe in throwing everything at one position that is "good enough" while in year 1 of a new coaching staff that has churned the roster. There's too much else that needs to be done to worry about spending an entire draft on moving up for Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields imo.

Your 100% correct.

You have to have a slow build approach. You cannot go all in for a QB and trade away futures for an unknown. There have been A LOT of misses within in the last 4 years of 1st round QB's. If you mortgage future picks for a guy and miss you dead in the water for years. 

You have to have patience. 

Actually because of the rookie salary cap, the best way to build a team is to get the QB last, on the rookie deal while being able to afford stars in other positions. We would be best served spending the next 2 year building the roster then making a push for a QB. 

Given the rookie wage scale it seems counter productive to get a QB first. 

[Sgt Schultz]

1 minute ago, CanadianCat said:

Your 100% correct.

You have to have a slow build approach. You cannot go all in for a QB and trade away futures for an unknown. There have been A LOT of misses within in the last 4 years of 1st round QB's. If you mortgage future picks for a guy and miss you dead in the water for years. 

You have to have patience. 

Actually because of the rookie salary cap, the best way to build a team is to get the QB last, on the rookie deal while being able to afford stars in other positions. We would be best served spending the next 2 year building the roster then making a push for a QB. 

Given the rookie wage scale it seems counter productive to get a QB first. 

I was thinking about that, too.  From a dollars and cents perspective, it makes sense to get the guy who is potentially going to be the budget breaker after his rookie deal runs out last. 

Of course, that is dependent on that guy being there when you are ready, and not before.  But, given the crap shoot that is drafting a college QB, identifying that person is an enormous variable.

I'm certainly not comfortable starting the rookie deal hourglass before we have some level of OL play that can avoid shortening the guy's career.  Not only does that not make sense from a salary perspective, we could actually ruin a young QB that might have just made it.  I've seen that scenario play out in the league a lot more than I have seen teams bring a young QB in to a situation that maximized his chance to succeed, ala KC. 

Drafting a QB in the high first round and then telling him to carry the clipboard because we don't want to get him slaughtered does not help much, and is rarely done in the NFL anymore.  Given the patience I have seen on this forum with the process, I would give that plan about two weeks before people would be screaming to feed the new guy to the lions.

[theinstrumental]

1 hour ago, CanadianCat said:

Actually because of the rookie salary cap, the best way to build a team is to get the QB last, on the rookie deal while being able to afford stars in other positions. We would be best served spending the next 2 year building the roster then making a push for a QB. 

Given the rookie wage scale it seems counter productive to get a QB first. 

This has not quite been how others teams have done it. They've gotten the QB on the rookie deal and then gone all in to maximize that window. Think the Rams trading for Cooks and Jalen Ramsey, the Bears trading for Khalil Mack, the Ravens trade for Ngakoue, the Chiefs trade for Frank Clark, etc. 

If you have a great team first, then your avenues for getting a quarterback are A: hope one falls to you (Baltimore/Lamar) or B: trade up for one (KC/Mahomes). One's unlikely and the other's expensive. 

[KSpan]

2 hours ago, Icege said:

The Chiefs missed the playoffs once in Alex Smith's tenure as the starting QB and never once did they have a losing record. They had a complete roster and had the luxury of being able to jump up and get their franchise QB. No matter how much you try and spin this, that's the fact. This is a night and day difference between the Panthers current situation and what the Chiefs had when Mahomes was available.

Folks here keep saying that Teddy Bridgewater is basically Alex Smith, and then follow that up by saying his play will keep us from winning the big one while also preventing us from drafting our franchise QB...... when the Chiefs drafted their franchise QB with Alex Smith succeeding as the starting QB? What?

I'm expecting to hear "STOP THE COUNT! KEEP COUNTING!" at this rate with how contradicting that narrative is.

Nobody is saying that Teddy is the franchise QB for the 2020s, and if they are they are wrong. Nobody is saying that we can't try and improve the QB position through the draft., because we definitely can (it's a matter of how much do you hamstring the rest of the roster chasing after that one position). As I said in my original post in this thread, we have two different types of fans when it comes to how they believe a team should be assembled: One group believes you do anything necessary to find and install a franchise QB; another group believes that you do anything necessary to fill out the entire roster to put the franchise QB in a position to succeed whenever in position to go get them.

Personally, I don't believe in throwing everything at one position that is "good enough" while in year 1 of a new coaching staff that has churned the roster. There's too much else that needs to be done to worry about spending an entire draft on moving up for Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields imo.

A large disconnect here is that you're assigning comments to me I never say and positions I don't take.

• I've never said to tank or that Teddy is somehow precluding us from drafting a QB.
• I've never said that we need to go all-in for Lawrence/Fields/name your college QB of choice here.
• I've never said that the team can't win any games with Teddy.

There is nothing contradictory about my premise when keeping in mind that the goal is to win the Super Bowl, not just make it to the playoffs. The Chiefs didn't, and couldn't, win with Alex Smith so they moved on to Mahomes and won nearly immediately with a very similar roster. Not only did they win, but with Mahomes at the helm they overcame deficits of 10 points or more (24 in the instance of Houston) to do it. Alex Smith can't do that and Teddy to date has shown that he can't either.

I hate to sound like a broken record but I live in KC and saw the Smith years firsthand along with the transition to Mahomes - your explanation is oversimplifying things and somewhat incorrect. I know how they played, what they did, and what his limitations were/are - they're the same as Teddy's. I've also said that the team *can* win with Teddy but that it is much harder. That is also holding true to date. 

To your third paragraph, there are plenty of people saying that Teddy is a franchise guy. And like I said, your representation of there being 2 groups is incorrect. They do not have to be mutually exclusive, which holds consistent since I'm not saying to mortgage the future for a college QB.

To your final paragraph, I have simply said that the staff should not limit themselves to Teddy if/when they see someone better simply because Teddy might be 'good enough', and that I feel there are definitely better options out there because Teddy's production is entirely replaceable.

[CanadianCat]

25 minutes ago, KSpan said:

A large disconnect here is that you're assigning comments to me I never say and positions I don't take.

• I've never said to tank or that Teddy is somehow precluding us from drafting a QB.
• I've never said that we need to go all-in for Lawrence/Fields/name your college QB of choice here.
• I've never said that the team can't win any games with Teddy.

There is nothing contradictory about my premise when keeping in mind that the goal is to win the Super Bowl, not just make it to the playoffs. The Chiefs didn't, and couldn't, win with Alex Smith so they moved on to Mahomes and won nearly immediately with a very similar roster. Not only did they win, but with Mahomes at the helm they overcame deficits of 10 points or more (24 in the instance of Houston) to do it. Alex Smith can't do that and Teddy to date has shown that he can't either.

I hate to sound like a broken record but I live in KC and saw the Smith years firsthand along with the transition to Mahomes - your explanation is oversimplifying things and somewhat incorrect. I know how they played, what they did, and what his limitations were/are - they're the same as Teddy's. I've also said that the team *can* win with Teddy but that it is much harder. That is also holding true to date. 

To your third paragraph, there are plenty of people saying that Teddy is a franchise guy. And like I said, your representation of there being 2 groups is incorrect. They do not have to be mutually exclusive, which holds consistent since I'm not saying to mortgage the future for a college QB.

To your final paragraph, I have simply said that the staff should not limit themselves to Teddy if/when they see someone better simply because Teddy might be 'good enough', and that I feel there are definitely better options out there because Teddy's production is entirely replaceable.

Teddy is as good as we could have asked for year 1. The team is not going to tank for a QB so if we really like a guy in the draft (and he is within reach) then I have no issue pulling the trigger. But I dont think that team can afford to give away multiple 1st round picks for a guy. 

Also there is like 0 change that we draft a QB and let him sit on the bench. We draft a 1st round QB he's starting by Thanksgiving (Canadian Thanksgiving)

[jdr6000]

I have learned that some people spend 3x as much time putting out negativity than positivity. It’s what makes them feel good about themselves for some odd reason.

[Basbear]

He replaced Cam is a big one.

Other is this- If your sole focus is only the negative and go looking it, you will find it. That gos for many other life lessons. 

I dont get the pure hate either. 

[SmokinwithWilly]

22 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Midway through his sixth season? Yeah we do.

He is what many of us tried to say he was. A decent game manager. Nothing more, nothing less.

Rhule gets the most out of players. Teddy is a decent game manager. Maybe he can be more. There's a lot of factors that play into it. He looks like hes playing rushed IMO because our line is so wildly inconsistent. 

I dont think he will ever be league mvp, but with a little time in a system built for him, he might end up being more than just a game manager. 

[LinvilleGorge]

24 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Rhule gets the most out of players. Teddy is a decent game manager. Maybe he can be more. There's a lot of factors that play into it. He looks like hes playing rushed IMO because our line is so wildly inconsistent. 

I dont think he will ever be league mvp, but with a little time in a system built for him, he might end up being more than just a game manager. 

If you're building a system around Teddy Bridgewater you're making a fatal error.

[SmokinwithWilly]

The object is to win games. You build around what you have. If TB fits the system Rhule wants then build build build. There's no guarantee you will get the QB of your dreams in the draft. You cant build a winning culture if you treat your players like they have no chance to win.

[Peon Awesome]

I've been a big fan of Teddy. I worried a 5 game sample on a super team in New Orleans would overvalue him. Instead he's been overperforming on a below average salary contract. People are putting ridiculous standards on him. They want him to be Mahomes and since he's not, we should mortgage our entire draft to take a 1st round qb, one of the biggest gambles for any NFL team. Teddy is steady, helps us with long, ball control drives, minimizes mistakes and keeps us in position to win. With a better defense that can actually make 3rd down stops and force more turnovers and an offensive line that can give him more than 1 second, I genuinely believe we could be a juggernaut with this coaching staff. We wouldn't need Teddy to bail us out most weeks on game winning drives. We only need that now cause our team has so little high end talent and yet we're still a play away against some of the league's elite like New Orleans and KC. 

I don't think Teddy is perfect. But I think the likelihood of us succeeding by gambling on a 1st round qb when we have a dozen other holes is much lower than if we used our draft picks and free agency to build the rest of the team. And once we have a team around Teddy and he's not doing enough, then grab your qb. Because every draft has 3 or 4 Kyle Trasks. No need to overdraft him this year.