Teddy experiment needs to be over

[Icege]

Week 7 passing attempts that were 20+ yards

7: Joe Burrow, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady
6: Kyler Murray, Nick Foles, Carson Wentz
5: Teddy Bridgewater, Jared Goff, Derek Carr, Baker Mayfield
4: Aaron Rodgers, Matt Stafford, Kyle Allen, Drew Lock
3: Patrick Mahomes, Cam Newton, Jimmy Garoppolo, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan
2: Andy Dalton, Ryan Tannehill, Josh Allen
1: Deshaun Watson, Sam Darnold, Daniel Jones
0: Drew Brees, Jarrett Stidham

Somebody is going to have to help me understand this Teddy hate a little better because I keep hearing the same parties jump back and forth between the same three refuted talking points like they haven't already been mercilessly dunked on: Can't throw deep -> throws ugly deep -> doesn't take shots deep.

If I can give Tre Boston credit for his decent plays after my long history of shitting on that man for everything else he does (or in the case of tackling, doesn't do) on the field, then these folks that are just out to troll in regards to Teddy can give the man credit for his good plays without the little quips that they'll add to try and downplay em.

For those folks crying over draft position, take a moment to remember how many of those same posters swore up and down we had won a meaningless game that took us out of position of drafting an impact pass rusher. The team's #16 pick that year? Brian Burns.

[LinvilleGorge]

Teddy has been better than I expected but he's still not good enough and he's been at his worst in the biggest moments. I honestly don't think that take is at all controversial.

[Brooklyn 3.0]

25 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The race to mediocrity. You've embraced it. 

Are you new to the Panthers? We've been mediocre since the start.

[Mage]

I question how anyone can watch Teddy play and not realize how much he benefits from the scheme and receivers.

And look at QBs across the league.  Teddy's numbers aren't special.  And sure, it's not all his fault, but what do people see in him?  He struggles every time a team plays good defense against us.  Falcons dared Teddy to push the ball downfield all game and he didn't.   Teddy can't fit it into tight windows in the redzone.  His TD% is a dismal 3.5%.  The offense hasn't scored 30 points since Week 4 despite playing the Falcons 2x and Saints.  Like what are ya'll seeing, for real?  Teddy's accurate in the short and middle of the field, but he's not making splash plays.  He isn't capable of just taking over a game.  And we have years of games worth of proof of that.  He's a Sam Bradford type QB.  Not bad, and nobody is hating on him for that because that is what we expected.  But that is what he is!  A Sam Bradford.  Won't hurt you, and you can win some unimportant games with him.  But with the game on the line, needing a big play?  Bradford wasn't that guy.  Teddy ain't that guy.

And it's funny because we are called Teddy "haters" for saying this, but nobody is saying he sucks.  We're just saying he's mediocre.  And that is okay.  Why is it that difficult for people to accept?  He's not a long-term answer.  The team knows he isn't a long-term answer.  He's a stop-gap.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.  Let's just treat him like that.  This is a rebuilding team that went on a nice 3-game winning streak, but at the end of the day that is what we are. 

[LinvilleGorge]

Give Bradford credit. No one in the history of football has made more money for doing less on the field than Sam Bradford. Bradford is the 17th highest paid NFL player of all-time. LOL!

[Mage]

Teddy does have some nice traits though.

His pocket movement is much better than I was expecting.  He does a good job extending plays despite not being that fast.  He understands the offense very well, clearly.  Comfortable changing plays at the LOS.  He's accurate underneath, most of the time.  And for the most part, he makes good decisions (in regard to being aggressive vs conservative).  With that, I think he has a tendency to go by the book too much, and it leads to him missing guys who are open downfield.  It's happened to DJ Moore multiple times.  Even last night, I think on that 4th down call, we get a 1st down if Teddy hands the ball off.  Instead, he kept it on the read and got taken down for a loss.  IMO Teddy probably expected the defensive end to crash going into the play, and had already decided to keep the ball rather than anticipating.  Teddy isn't comfortable when things don't go by the book.

Like I said, Teddy isn't a bad QB.  I just don't know why it is so bad for us to point out his obvious limitations.  He's an Alex Smith-lite QB (although personally, I don't think he's as good as peak Alex Smith... but maybe one day he will be).  And there is a reason the Chiefs moved on from that.  They have limitations, and it forces you to have all the right pieces around them to succeed.  And sure, if nobody is there in the draft, that is what we'll need to do with Teddy.  But wouldn't it be nice to have a QB who can make plays when things aren't going well around them?  That is what the best QBs do.  Deshaun Watson hasn't had a good OL in his entire career and he still balls.  Russ can make things happen.  Mahomes can make things happen.  Lamar can make things happen.  Hell even Josh Allen can make things happen.  And I'm not saying we need to have a top five elite QB, because that isn't always a reasonable expectations... but Teddy I don't think can even have a stretch of games at that level, especially not in the postseason when he'll be playing nothing but great defenses.

[KSpan]

21 minutes ago, Icege said:

Week 7 passing attempts that were 20+ yards

7: Joe Burrow, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady
6: Kyler Murray, Nick Foles, Carson Wentz
5: Teddy Bridgewater, Jared Goff, Derek Carr, Baker Mayfield
4: Aaron Rodgers, Matt Stafford, Kyle Allen, Drew Lock
3: Patrick Mahomes, Cam Newton, Jimmy Garoppolo, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan
2: Andy Dalton, Ryan Tannehill, Josh Allen
1: Deshaun Watson, Sam Darnold, Daniel Jones
0: Drew Brees, Jarrett Stidham

Somebody is going to have to help me understand this Teddy hate a little better because I keep hearing the same parties jump back and forth between the same three refuted talking points like they haven't already been mercilessly dunked on: Can't throw deep -> throws ugly deep -> doesn't take shots deep.

If I can give Tre Boston credit for his decent plays after my long history of shitting on that man for everything else he does (or in the case of tackling, doesn't do) on the field, then these folks that are just out to troll in regards to Teddy can give the man credit for his good plays without the little quips that they'll add to try and downplay em.

For those folks crying over draft position, take a moment to remember how many of those same posters swore up and down we had won a meaningless game that took us out of position of drafting an impact pass rusher. The team's #16 pick that year? Brian Burns.

One week is nearly irrelevant in data terms, and while 20 yards may be called 'deep' it doesn't stretch the field, and defenses are clearly now sitting on Carolina's short stuff. I don't see how someone can have objectively watched these past games and not see the issue with not stretching the field. It impacts every aspect of the offense.

I said it in another thread but the film is out on Carolina's offense and Teddy hasn't been dynamic enough to keep defenses honest. How will the team and staff adapt?

[amcoolio]

12 minutes ago, Mage said:

I question how anyone can watch Teddy play and not realize how much he benefits from the scheme and receivers.

And look at QBs across the league.  Teddy's numbers aren't special.  And sure, it's not all his fault, but what do people see in him?  He struggles every time a team plays good defense against us.  Falcons dared Teddy to push the ball downfield all game and he didn't.   Teddy can't fit it into tight windows in the redzone.  His TD% is a dismal 3.5%.  The offense hasn't scored 30 points since Week 4 despite playing the Falcons 2x and Saints.  Like what are ya'll seeing, for real?  Teddy's accurate in the short and middle of the field, but he's not making splash plays.  He isn't capable of just taking over a game.  And we have years of games worth of proof of that.  He's a Sam Bradford type QB.  Not bad, and nobody is hating on him for that because that is what we expected.  But that is what he is!  A Sam Bradford.  Won't hurt you, and you can win some unimportant games with him.  But with the game on the line, needing a big play?  Bradford wasn't that guy.  Teddy ain't that guy.

And it's funny because we are called Teddy "haters" for saying this, but nobody is saying he sucks.  We're just saying he's mediocre.  And that is okay.  Why is it that difficult for people to accept?  He's not a long-term answer.  The team knows he isn't a long-term answer.  He's a stop-gap.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.  Let's just treat him like that.  This is a rebuilding team that went on a nice 3-game winning streak, but at the end of the day that is what we are. 

What QB could we have gotten this past offseason to fix your distaste? Because Cam certainly ain't it.

[amcoolio]

1 minute ago, KSpan said:

One week is nearly irrelevant in data terms, and while 20 yards may be called 'deep' it doesn't stretch the field, and defenses are clearly now sitting on Carolina's short stuff. I don't see how someone can have objectively watched these past games and not see the issue with not stretching the field. It impacts every aspect of the offense.

I said it in another thread but the film is out on Carolina's offense and Teddy hasn't been dynamic enough to keep defenses honest. How will the team and staff adapt?

Can you count for me the times Bridgewater had more than 2 seconds to drop back and make the field stretching pass that you so want last night? I'll be waiting.

At one point Matt Ryan had a full 1 second time to pass advantage (it kept track of it if you watched Amazon Prime on PC

[Mage]

3 minutes ago, amcoolio said:

What QB could we have gotten this past offseason to fix your distaste? Because Cam certainly ain't it.

... What?  What does that have to do with my post lol?

I have no problem with how the team approached this offseason.  I understood why we signed Teddy.  He was a stop-gap QB for a rebuilding team.  And the team knows that hence the contract.  He helps our young offensive talent grow and allows us to evaluate them.  He will be here for when the next young QB is drafted, whenever that happens, to groom him.  I mean, this is so obviously the plan within the next 2 years.  I'll put $100,000 on it right now. 

So I'm not sure what that question has to do with anything.  I'm cool with Teddy because I know his purpose on this team.  And yeah, it sucks to lose games... but the next day, after the smoke has cleared, it doesn't really bother me.  3-5 with this team under Matt Rhule is WAY different than 3-5 with this team under Rivera.  This team is rebuilding.  Those Rivera teams were littered with talent.

It seems the only people that will ultimately have a problem with the Teddy signing is those who actually think he has a chance to be our long-term future QB.  

[Mage]

3 minutes ago, amcoolio said:

Can you count for me the times Bridgewater had more than 2 seconds to drop back and make the field stretching pass that you so want last night? I'll be waiting.

At one point Matt Ryan had a full 1 second time to pass advantage (it kept track of it if you watched Amazon Prime on PC

If Teddy needs us to rebuild the OL before he can make big time plays consistently, then what is the point of hanging on?  It ain't like we can turn this offensive line into something elite within one offseason given we have needs at LT-LG-C-RG.  Not to mention re-signing Taylor Moton.  This offensive line, if we're being reasonable, probably won't be good or great until 2022 at the earliest barring a crazy development.  

And what will be the excuse then if we don't re-sign one of, if not two of, if not all three of DJ Moore, Robby Anderson, or Curtis Samuel?  Will it be he no longer has good WRs, thus can't make the plays?

This is why teams move on from guys like Alex Smith and Sam Bradford and have already done with Teddy Bridgewater.  What's the point of being a good QB if you can't make plays in a less than ideal situation?  It ain't like Teddy doesn't have anything.  Cam at one point had a terrible OL, terrible receivers, and a terrible running game behind him, and a TERRIBLE scheme.  Teddy has a good run game and a great WR trio, along with a GREAT scheme.  And yet his numbers are middling.

Ya'll need to watch these other QBs around the NFL.  Go watch Justin Herbert.  That dude can make plays, and it ain't like the Chargers OL is good.  Teddy plays well within the scheme and helps EXECUTE plays, but he doesn't MAKE plays (not consistently). 

[Icege]

2 minutes ago, KSpan said:

One week is nearly irrelevant in data terms, and while 20 yards may be called 'deep' it doesn't stretch the field, and defenses are clearly now sitting on Carolina's short stuff. I don't see how someone can have objectively watched these past games and not see the issue with not stretching the field. It impacts every aspect of the offense.

I said it in another thread but the film is out on Carolina's offense and Teddy hasn't been dynamic enough to keep defenses honest. How will the team and staff adapt?

A deep pass is 20yds downfield. This was already beaten to death before the season began.

Head to head deep passing attempts compared to the opposing QB:
LV (Carr) - 4:3
TB (Brady) -3:?
LAC (Herbert) - 2:4
ARI (Murray) - 4:?
ATL (Ryan) - 3:?
CHI (Foles) - 3:1
NO (Brees) - 5:0
ATL (Ryan) - 4:4

Teddy has one game where he took less deep shots than the opposing QB, and that was against the Chargers (unless passing charts for TB/ARI/ATL turn up).

[Mage]

And Teddy's strengths are already being targeted by teams, and he isn't able to fix it.  Yes, the offensive line has played worse than it did during our winning streak, but it's also because teams are stacking the box more and daring Teddy to beat them deep.  They are eliminating Mike Davis, not only in the run game, but in the pass game as well.  

Between Weeks 2 and 5, Davis was averaging 7.5 catches a game.  Teddy during that stretch had 75 CMP%, 5 TDs, 3 INTs, 8.33 Y/A, and a 102.6 QB Rating

Between Weeks 6 and 8, Davis has averaged 2.6 catches a game.  Teddy during that stretch has had 67.50 CMP%, 3 TDs, 3 INTs, 8.08 Y/A and a 88.9 QB Rating.  

If the Falcons can figure it out, what ya'll think is about to happen against even better teams?  

[TLGPanthersFan]

Makes me wonder if the Vikings knew something when they got rid of Bridgewater. I remember some articles in 2015 saying the staff was frustrated with Bridgey’s limitations and inability to push the ball down the field. 
When they saw that Cousins(Which now is funny in hindsight because he is terrible) was available and had, on paper, better skill set than Tedder they jumped at the opportunity. 
I was really hoping we’d face the Vikings in the divisional game because I wasn’t scared of Bridgewater.