Gross or Peppers?

[CBDellinger]

We have plenty of room to sign both!

[mountainpantherfan]

I'm by no means am I in the Peppers apoligist club but to say he isn't one of the best DE in the league and that he isn't the talent that Allen, Abraham and Tuck are in is just being as blind to your own argument as the Peppers apolists are.

Peppers is a top DE in this league. Make the argument that even then he isn't worth the money some think he will demand. Make the agrument that trading him for draft picks like the Cowboys did with Walker could build this team into a dynasty. Make the argument that he doesn't want to stay in Carolina and paying him a large contract will only result in him becoming another Jenkins. But my God, don't try to agrue he isn't talented.

[Malt Liquor]

I'm by no means am I in the Peppers apoligist club but to say he isn't one of the best DE in the league and that he isn't the talent that Allen, Abraham and Tuck are in is just being as blind to your own argument as the Peppers apolists are.

Peppers is a top DE in this league. Make the argument that even then he isn't worth the money some think he will demand. Make the agrument that trading him for draft picks like the Cowboys did with Walker could build this team into a dynasty. Make the argument that he doesn't want to stay in Carolina and paying him a large contract will only result in him becoming another Jenkins. But my God, don't try to agrue he isn't talented.

This is the same thing I was trying to say, I love Peppers but if we could trade him for multiple draft picks (we need to revamp our DLine, like we did last year with our OLine) I would trade him.

GO PANTHERS!!!!!!

[1789Cardiac Cats9020]

This is the same thing I was trying to say, I love Peppers but if we could trade him for multiple draft picks (we need to revamp our DLine, like we did last year with our OLine) I would trade him.

GO PANTHERS!!!!!!

I'm guessing you'd do the same to Steve Smith under the same conditions?

[bigdog_10_2002]

ohhh... the double post!!!

please look up the word irony. we've been over that before around here and apparently you dont know the definition.

i'll tell you that Pep is a better DE than any of those guys you mentioned... and if you dont want facts...er...stats, well then, what's the saying? "if you could reason with Peppers' haters there would be no Peppers' haters."

the fact that you're still using the same tired line that "Peppers doesn't have a motor" and not providing any evidence to support it is ridiculous.

Jared Allen is on one of the best defensive lines in football...he plays beside the Williams duo which draw most of the double teams which frees him and Ray Edwards up to do their thing. now this is no slam on our DTs but the Williams' they're not. put JP on a line where he's not the only one who can dominate and take over a game and see what kind of impact he'd have.

most people around here understand that it's not the secondary's fault the d-line can't get pressure. that said, it's not exclusively JP's fault that the d-line can't get pressure...he's only one man out of four and can only do so much. i dont recall hearing this much bitching when a young Ruck, Buck, and Jenks were alongside Pep blowing things up.

do the research, give us a precise number... prove that Peppers is the player you say he is and not the demigod we make him out to be... we'll wait

lol...coming from the person who called me out for my use of albeit and then proceeded to use the word "know" for no. But thats neither here nor there. Its a message board, grammar is the farthest thing from my mind when I make a post. I'm glad to know that you will be watching over everyone's posts and keeping us small minded folks in line...lol

as far as the "Stats" argument goes. I threw the stats out the window for your behalf. It greatly weakens your argument if you bring up Pepper's stats over the last 2-3 years compared to the aforementioned DE's. But if you want to some factual evidence, check the stats. I'd venture a guess, that Peppers, (Statistically) isn't even in the same arena as those guys mentioned earlier.

It's not just Pepper's fault. I think we all agree that the defensive line could use an upgrade. But, when you talking about giving a player a contract that would make him one of, (if not) the highest paid players in the league, its a little concerning to me. I would much rather see the large amount of money that the team could invest in a proven inconsistent player like peppers, go to two solid or above average defensive linemen. And please don't argue with me that Pepper's isn't inconsistent, if you don't believe that, I may as well be talking to a wall.

Here's some stats that I find alarming for a defensive end, who is fixing to get a huge, huge paycheck.

In 9 out of 15 games this year, he has recorded 3 or less tackles. ***Albeit, tackles don't tell the whole story for a defensive end, this is just an example of a stat, that you were asking for.

7 out of Pep's 13.5 sacks have come against three teams: Detroit, Oakland, and Green Bay. Once again, I could care less about how many sacks he has, what I would rather see is a Demarcus Ware type effort on every play.

There is one thing that Pep has done exceptionally well this year and that is force fumbles. I cannot knock him for that, he has done a good job when he has gotten into the backfield in that regard.

Peppers is a Good guy and I like him as a player. I'm just not sold on selling the farm for one player who has proved to be inconsistent in the past couple of years.

With all that said, I'll end my half of this debate, as I can see it isn't going much farther than the two of us bickering back and forth....Merry Christmas and Go Panthers!!!

[bigdog_10_2002]

I'm guessing you'd do the same to Steve Smith under the same conditions?

two completely different players are Smith and Peppers....completely different

[Lt Pinkerton]

two completely different players are Smith and Peppers....completely different

Steve Smith had very little potential coming out of College, and very few physical skills. But he is the epitome of hard work and determination and that has made him the top WR in the league. Peppers is a freak athlete and you can make an argument that he has more potential than any other defensive player ever (No one should be that big and that fast) but he doesn't have the determination of getting to the QB like Demarcus Ware or Jared Allen does.

If Peppers had Smith's drive, he would be the greatest Defensive End in league history. Better than Strahan, better than White.

[bigdog_10_2002]

Steve Smith had very little potential coming out of College, and very few physical skills. But he is the epitome of hard work and determination and that has made him the top WR in the league. Peppers is a freak athlete and you can make an argument that he has more potential than any other defensive player ever (No one should be that big and that fast) but he doesn't have the determination of getting to the QB like Demarcus Ware or Jared Allen does.

If Peppers had Smith's drive, he would be the greatest Defensive End in league history. Better than Strahan, better than White.

you are going to get flamed entirely, but I agree with you.

I'm not saying that pep doesn't have the drive. He does, we've all seen how he plays when he's pissed off and he's dang near unstoppable. Unfortunately, that side of him isn't always evident

[SCpanther]

Pepper's gave tremendous effort on two plays against the Giants. One was his sack, where he absolutely abused the tackle, and the other was the deflection on eli's pass. The other plays he was nearly a non-factor, (all be it, i'll give you the argument that he may have caused a false start or two).

You pretty much lost all credibility with that statement. To say he only gave good effort on two plays in the entire game is ridiculous. There are other factors at play. Against the Giants he didn't have a great game but a lot of the credit should go to the Giants O-line. They did a good job on Peppers and the rest of the D-line. Also, a DEs job isn't always to rush the passer, sometimes his job is containment. I'd be willing to bet that's what he's doing on some of the plays people think he's taking off. Fatigue is another factor that might be at play from time to time. Peppers is an every down DE, who is rotated less than most defensive ends.

[MaineManPanther]

Do you guys really think that if Peppers didnt play hard and quitted on plays, that other players or coaches wouldnt get on his ass?

Players like Harris and Beason wouldnt allow it. Instead they constanly rave about him. Im sure they would say otherwise if they thought different.

[Punisher]

lol...coming from the person who called me out for my use of albeit and then proceeded to use the word "know" for no. But thats neither here nor there. Its a message board, grammar is the farthest thing from my mind when I make a post. I'm glad to know that you will be watching over everyone's posts and keeping us small minded folks in line...lol

as far as the "Stats" argument goes. I threw the stats out the window for your behalf. It greatly weakens your argument if you bring up Pepper's stats over the last 2-3 years compared to the aforementioned DE's. But if you want to some factual evidence, check the stats. I'd venture a guess, that Peppers, (Statistically) isn't even in the same arena as those guys mentioned earlier.

It's not just Pepper's fault. I think we all agree that the defensive line could use an upgrade. But, when you talking about giving a player a contract that would make him one of, (if not) the highest paid players in the league, its a little concerning to me. I would much rather see the large amount of money that the team could invest in a proven inconsistent player like peppers, go to two solid or above average defensive linemen. And please don't argue with me that Pepper's isn't inconsistent, if you don't believe that, I may as well be talking to a wall.

Here's some stats that I find alarming for a defensive end, who is fixing to get a huge, huge paycheck.

In 9 out of 15 games this year, he has recorded 3 or less tackles. ***Albeit, tackles don't tell the whole story for a defensive end, this is just an example of a stat, that you were asking for.

7 out of Pep's 13.5 sacks have come against three teams: Detroit, Oakland, and Green Bay. Once again, I could care less about how many sacks he has, what I would rather see is a Demarcus Ware type effort on every play.

There is one thing that Pep has done exceptionally well this year and that is force fumbles. I cannot knock him for that, he has done a good job when he has gotten into the backfield in that regard.

Peppers is a Good guy and I like him as a player. I'm just not sold on selling the farm for one player who has proved to be inconsistent in the past couple of years.

With all that said, I'll end my half of this debate, as I can see it isn't going much farther than the two of us bickering back and forth....Merry Christmas and Go Panthers!!!

No he is right. How you said irony made absolutly no sence. The grammer hammer isn't at issue when you are making stuff up. There was nothing ironic so you made it up.