Gross or Peppers?

[rubberpantz]

Ah, the infamous lack of effort argument. I wish people would show some video clips of all these plays that Peppers supposedly takes off. There must be a ton of them since it's brought up so often.

sorry...there's a lack of effort in providing evidence...

[bigdog_10_2002]

Ah, the infamous lack of effort argument. I wish people would show some video clips of all these plays that Peppers supposedly takes off. There must be a ton of them since it's brought up so often.

would that be an anti-highlight reel....

If you can't see that he just engages his blocker from time to time, and jogs to the play on other instances, I honestly don't know what to say.

Pepper's gave tremendous effort on two plays against the Giants. One was his sack, where he absolutely abused the tackle, and the other was the deflection on eli's pass. The other plays he was nearly a non-factor, (all be it, i'll give you the argument that he may have caused a false start or two).

Forgive some of us who are concerned that the Panther's F.O. may be fixing to give a huge contract to a guy who is dominant on about 7% of the defensive plays.

[rubberpantz]

would that be an anti-highlight reel....

If you can't see that he just engages his blocker from time to time, and jogs to the play on other instances, I honestly don't know what to say.

Pepper's gave tremendous effort on two plays against the Giants. One was his sack, where he absolutely abused the tackle, and the other was the deflection on eli's pass. The other plays he was nearly a non-factor, (all be it, i'll give you the argument that he may have caused a false start or two).

Forgive some of us who are concerned that the Panther's F.O. may be fixing to give a huge contract to a guy who is dominant on about 7% of the defensive plays.

yeah, when you say "all be it" instead of albeit... i know you have know idea what you're talking about.

it also proves that you dont watch any other games. freeney, abraham, tuck... they're not highlight reels every damn down either. i know pep has high expectations because of previous performances but jesus christ... as fox would say, "the other team practices too".

it amazes me that pep has one off year and just because he doesn't sack the qb on every down or strip the rb on every rush, he's somehow a bum.

you bitches would be crying about how weak our pass rush would be w/o pep but continually throw him under the bus and act as if he's somehow less important than smitty or jake or beason.

and srsly.... 7%? did you pull that out of your ass or did you really equate that w/ his effectiveness at making plays? (if it's the latter i'd love to see your formula)

[tarheelpride]

keep Pep...

if i recall correctly, the bulk of our biggest runs have come from Otah's side... not Gross'

however, most of the opposing rush come from delhomme's blind side - the left side.

this is real tough

[MaineManPanther]

With the sudden arrival of our running game it makes it alot harder. Id hate to lose a vital part of our running game after working so hard to get it.

That being said, if we lose Peppers our defence will suck big time. We have an average pass rush already, if you take him out it will be horrid. You can have Asmouga and Champ Bailey for all I care, but it wouldnt matter with such a non exsitent rush.

[PantherDFense]

are U kidding me fellaz? THIS is even a thread?

[jayflip]

we dont really run well to the left anyway do we? i remember seeing a graphic after the tampa game and only like 30 of our 300 yards came from running to gross' side.

keep pep as he is a much rarer talent to replace.

all that said, i think marty figures out how to keep both.

we forget that Marty Hurney is a master at his craft. He'll find a way to keep both if it's in the best interest of the organization. There will be extenions (like Kasay's earlier this year) and painful cuts-a-comin, but it'll all work out to his plan.

[bigdog_10_2002]

yeah, when you say "all be it" instead of albeit... i know you have know idea what you're talking about.

it also proves that you dont watch any other games. freeney, abraham, tuck... they're not highlight reels every damn down either. i know pep has high expectations because of previous performances but jesus christ... as fox would say, "the other team practices too".

it amazes me that pep has one off year and just because he doesn't sack the qb on every down or strip the rb on every rush, he's somehow a bum.

you bitches would be crying about how weak our pass rush would be w/o pep but continually throw him under the bus and act as if he's somehow less important than smitty or jake or beason.

and srsly.... 7%? did you pull that out of your ass or did you really equate that w/ his effectiveness at making plays? (if it's the latter i'd love to see your formula)

ohh the irony!!!

Secondly, Peppers is no Freeny, Abraham, Tuck or Allen for one reason and one reason only. Peppers doesn't have the motor that those guys do. You can't honestly watch Jared Allen play, and then watch Peppers play and tell me peppers is a better defensive end than he is, can you? And please don't give me stats....I honestly could care less about Peppers filling his stat sheet with 5 sacks against the likes of detroit and oakland. I just want my defensive end to be disruptive more than half the plays.

Sure Peppers gets double teamed, but its not nearly as much as you Peppers fanboys make it out to be. The rest of the guys you mentioned see their fair share of double teams as well.

Everyone wonders why our secondary has been so terrible for the past couple of years. Everyone wants to throw gamble, lucas, marshall and Godfrey under the bus. Well a secondary is only as good as the pressure the front is getting. If Peppers were consistently in the back field, I would argue that our secondary wouldn't be in the shape its currently in. It's not very hard to understand that when a QB has 4-5 seconds in the pocket, he's going to find an open man.

as for the 7%, yeah I pulled it out of my rear, but I'm fairly certain that had I done the research and given you a precise number, you and the other peppers fan club members would have dismissed it and then went on to tell me how great peppers is, and that no defensive end in the league sees the kind of offensive protection that he does.

[bigdog_10_2002]

yeah, when you say "all be it" instead of albeit... i know you have know idea what you're talking about.

it also proves that you dont watch any other games. freeney, abraham, tuck... they're not highlight reels every damn down either. i know pep has high expectations because of previous performances but jesus christ... as fox would say, "the other team practices too".

it amazes me that pep has one off year and just because he doesn't sack the qb on every down or strip the rb on every rush, he's somehow a bum.

you bitches would be crying about how weak our pass rush would be w/o pep but continually throw him under the bus and act as if he's somehow less important than smitty or jake or beason.

and srsly.... 7%? did you pull that out of your ass or did you really equate that w/ his effectiveness at making plays? (if it's the latter i'd love to see your formula)

ohh the irony!!!

Secondly, Peppers is no Freeny, Abraham, Tuck or Allen for one reason and one reason only. Peppers doesn't have the motor that those guys do. You can't honestly watch Jared Allen play, and then watch Peppers play and tell me peppers is a better defensive end than he is, can you? And please don't give me stats....I honestly could care less about Peppers filling his stat sheet with 5 sacks against the likes of detroit and oakland. I just want my defensive end to be disruptive more than half the plays.

Sure Peppers gets double teamed, but its not nearly as much as you Peppers fanboys make it out to be. The rest of the guys you mentioned see their fair share of double teams as well.

Everyone wonders why our secondary has been so terrible for the past couple of years. Everyone wants to throw gamble, lucas, marshall and Godfrey under the bus. Well a secondary is only as good as the pressure the front is getting. If Peppers were consistently in the back field, I would argue that our secondary wouldn't be in the shape its currently in. It's not very hard to understand that when a QB has 4-5 seconds in the pocket, he's going to find an open man.

as for the 7%, yeah I pulled it out of my rear, but I'm fairly certain that had I done the research and given you a precise number, you and the other peppers fan club members would have dismissed it and then went on to tell me how great peppers is, and that no defensive end in the league sees the kind of offensive protection that he does.

[jbland]

I just had a thought. Do you guys remember a few years ago how strong the Seattle Seahawks Offensive line was? Remember how they lost their probowl guard Steve Hutchinson, the next year their line sucked, and they have sucked since? Yes I know one is a guard, and one a tackle. But they are both very good at what they do.

Well all year I have wanted peppers to be the one the gets signed here, and let gross walk. However, after thinking about that, I now think gross might be a bigger priority.

I really hope we just find a way to sign both of these guys, and keep out core players together.

[rubberpantz]

ohh the irony!!!

Secondly, Peppers is no Freeny, Abraham, Tuck or Allen for one reason and one reason only. Peppers doesn't have the motor that those guys do. You can't honestly watch Jared Allen play, and then watch Peppers play and tell me peppers is a better defensive end than he is, can you? And please don't give me stats....I honestly could care less about Peppers filling his stat sheet with 5 sacks against the likes of detroit and oakland. I just want my defensive end to be disruptive more than half the plays.

Sure Peppers gets double teamed, but its not nearly as much as you Peppers fanboys make it out to be. The rest of the guys you mentioned see their fair share of double teams as well.

Everyone wonders why our secondary has been so terrible for the past couple of years. Everyone wants to throw gamble, lucas, marshall and Godfrey under the bus. Well a secondary is only as good as the pressure the front is getting. If Peppers were consistently in the back field, I would argue that our secondary wouldn't be in the shape its currently in. It's not very hard to understand that when a QB has 4-5 seconds in the pocket, he's going to find an open man.

as for the 7%, yeah I pulled it out of my rear, but I'm fairly certain that had I done the research and given you a precise number, you and the other peppers fan club members would have dismissed it and then went on to tell me how great peppers is, and that no defensive end in the league sees the kind of offensive protection that he does.

ohhh... the double post!!!

please look up the word irony. we've been over that before around here and apparently you dont know the definition.

i'll tell you that Pep is a better DE than any of those guys you mentioned... and if you dont want facts...er...stats, well then, what's the saying? "if you could reason with Peppers' haters there would be no Peppers' haters."

the fact that you're still using the same tired line that "Peppers doesn't have a motor" and not providing any evidence to support it is ridiculous.

Jared Allen is on one of the best defensive lines in football...he plays beside the Williams duo which draw most of the double teams which frees him and Ray Edwards up to do their thing. now this is no slam on our DTs but the Williams' they're not. put JP on a line where he's not the only one who can dominate and take over a game and see what kind of impact he'd have.

most people around here understand that it's not the secondary's fault the d-line can't get pressure. that said, it's not exclusively JP's fault that the d-line can't get pressure...he's only one man out of four and can only do so much. i dont recall hearing this much bitching when a young Ruck, Buck, and Jenks were alongside Pep blowing things up.

do the research, give us a precise number... prove that Peppers is the player you say he is and not the demigod we make him out to be... we'll wait

[pantherclaw]

Realistically, we can still keep both.

[God]

Get off of Julius Peppers dick. He is good, but not near the likes of Jared Allen, Abraham, Tuck, etc.

[rubberpantz]

Get off of Julius Peppers dick. He is good, but not near the likes of Jared Allen, Abraham, Tuck, etc.

wow, you've got to be the head of the idiots league of america if you think he's "not near the likes of JA, Abe, and Tuck"...

i can't believe you actually said that and that there are people that retarded capable of using a computer.

http://www.nfl.com/players/juliuspeppers/profile?id=PEP422041

http://www.nfl.com/players/justintuck/profile?id=TUC056287

http://www.nfl.com/players/jaredallen/profile?id=ALL454745

http://www.nfl.com/players/johnabraham/profile?id=ABR073003