All of you were right about Cam

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, dave-o said:

Fixed that for ya....

So is ours. There are at least four college QBs I'd take over Teddy Bridgewater right now. Now questions asked. 

[Icege]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

So is ours. There are at least four college QBs I'd take over Teddy Bridgewater right now. Now questions asked. 

You also said that Herbert was a bust so you'll have to forgive us for doubting your QB prospect evaluation skills.

[raz]

1 minute ago, Icege said:

You also said that Herbert was a bust so you'll have to forgive us for doubting your QB prospect evaluation skills.

he def said that like 200,000 times.  i remember though he usually threw in a disclaimer that it may not be herbert but the 0/playcalling/stupid system they ran

[LinvilleGorge]

25 minutes ago, Icege said:

You also said that Herbert was a bust so you'll have to forgive us for doubting your QB prospect evaluation skills.

I said that based on what I watched at Oregon and I said that over and over if you want to actually not cherry pick. What he did in that Oregon offense would not translate to the NFL. That's why the interviews are so vital to QB evaluation.

[tiger7_88]

9 hours ago, (ATL'ien) said:

Also got Moncrief. Agree about Ginn. Hope they sign Ginn. Yes, some college teams have a better WR room.

Auburn has a terrible passing offense and their WR room is better than NE’s.

[t96]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I said that based on what I watched at Oregon and I said that over and over if you want to actually not cherry pick. What he did in that Oregon offense would not translate to the NFL. That's why the interviews are so vital to QB evaluation.

It's still early but clearly the early results indicate that it absolutely did translate to the NFL...

 

I wasn't a Herbert fan either for similar reasons to you but rather than double down on this like you I'll just admit that I was probably wrong about Herbert. Not that hard

[LinvilleGorge]

11 minutes ago, t96 said:

It's still early but clearly the early results indicate that it absolutely did translate to the NFL...

 

I wasn't a Herbert fan either for similar reasons to you but rather than double down on this like you I'll just admit that I was probably wrong about Herbert. Not that hard

You're missing the point. What he's doing in the NFL is NOT what he did at Oregon. What has become clear is that it wasn't due to has lack of ability, it was due to what was being asked of him in that offense.

Literally the only thing I'm doubling down on I'd the same thing I said pre-draft.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 hours ago, raz said:

he def said that like 200,000 times.  i remember though he usually threw in a disclaimer that it may not be herbert but the 0/playcalling/stupid system they ran

At least someone remembers. As a fan I have no ability to interview these guys and put them through the ringer. All I can do is watch them play and comment on whether or not what I'm watching in my opinion translates to the NFL. What he did at Oregon didn't. But watching him play in the NFL, it's pretty obvious that was simply a product of that offensive system and wasn't indicative of what he could potentially do. Without being able to interview the guy, there's no way of knowing that.

[t96]

8 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You're missing the point. What he's doing in the NFL is NOT what he did at Oregon. What has become clear is that it wasn't due to has lack of ability, it was due to what was being asked of him in that offense.

Literally the only thing I'm doubling down on I'd the same thing I said pre-draft.

I don't see the distinction. He showed the traits at Oregon that made him a highly regarded prospect and that are now translating to the NFL. What type of offense he played in isn't super relevant to that.

[LinvilleGorge]

11 minutes ago, t96 said:

I don't see the distinction. He showed the traits at Oregon that made him a highly regarded prospect and that are now translating to the NFL. What type of offense he played in isn't super relevant to that.

I said he showed the traits. I said he had every physical tool you could want in a QB. Buy one read and run and constant half filed reads don't translate to the NFL and that's what he did at Oregon. 

I'm not sure what you're not understanding here.

If you want to talk about a guy I was flat out wrong about it's Josh Allen. Watching in in college I basically thought he was a very poor man's Cam. He had a lot of mechanical issues and was largely getting by on physical gifts that were less than Cam's. What he was his first two seasons was basically on the upper end of what I expected. What he was through the first five games this season was something I never expected to see. He's kinda gone back to what he used to be the last couple of games, but he's absolutely shown he has the ability to be an elite franchise QB and I never expected that.

[raz]

i can tell you this, if i was the AD at oregon i would fire the football coach yesterday, that's how different herbert looks - and i wanted us to draft him big time and i thought he'd be a project sitting on the bench for a few years

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, raz said:

i can tell you this, if i was the AD at oregon i would fire the football coach yesterday, that's how different herbert looks - and i wanted us to draft him big time.

Seriously. One of my big question marks about Herbert was the fact that in crunch time they looked terrified to throw the ball. They were hell bent on running the ball to a fault. You're telling me you had THAT guy and you were running that training wheels offense? Shame on you.

[t96]

14 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I said he showed the traits. I said he had every physical tool you could want in a QB. Buy one read and run and constant half filed reads don't translate to the NFL and that's what he did at Oregon. 

I'm not sure what you're not understanding here.

If you want to talk about a guy I was flat out wrong about it's Josh Allen. Watching in in college I basically thought he was a very poor man's Cam. He had a lot of mechanical issues and was largely getting by on physical gifts that were less than Cam's. What he was his first two seasons was basically on the upper end of what I expected. What he was through the first five games this season was something I never expected to see. He's kinda gone back to what he used to be the last couple of games, but he's absolutely shown he has the ability to be an elite franchise QB and I never expected that.

Just so we're clear, you're very specifically referring to him going through his progressions and reading the field/defenses, yes?

We agree on the physical traits which I think are obvious and most every scout/fan would agree with. I think the disconnect is on the scouting of the progressions/reading the field/defenses. You and I both think he didn't show that ability in college, but where we differ is that you seem to be arguing that in that Oregon offense, you can't properly evaluate that aspect of a QB's game. I disagree with that, I think the type of offense a QB is playing in doesn't make it impossible to evaluate how a QB may do in a more pro-style offense in the NFL. It may contribute to making it more difficult to scout, but I don't think it makes it impossible or to where you could only rely on the interview like you were saying in your first post.

There were plenty of scouts/evaluations pre-draft that thought Herbert did show those abilities at Oregon, and plenty that thought he didn't. I was in the latter group and was just flat out wrong about it (probably, though we'll see how defenses adjust to Herbert over time, the early results look great for him).

[raz]

herbert is either the luckiest guy in the world or he could drop a ball in a bucket moving 20mph at 65 yards.  some of the throws its just hard to believe.