Why does the offense suck ass in the 4th quarter with the game on the line?

[Varking]

31 minutes ago, jdr6000 said:

Because the coaches get all nervous and conservative.
 

Teddy has ice water in his veins...cool and calm under pressure.

In close games they should just let him be an "on-the-field OC".  He is smart enough to do it.
Brady and Rhule act like bumbling keystone cops when things are close late in a game.
Let Teddy run the show and better results would happen.

Ice water in your veins doesn’t have you down 7 points to Tom Brady in the 4th and you throw an INT. Ice water in your veins doesn’t have you down one score against the Bears and you throw a game ending INT. Ice water in your veins doesn’t have you eat a sack putting you out of field goal range when you are only down 3 points. 
 

Teddy is winning me over slowly. As of right now I have him in the middle to lower middle of QBs in the NFL. When the season started I had him at the bottom or near it. He’s done things well but he absolutely does not have ice water in his veins. 

[KSpan]

30 minutes ago, Rags said:

Disagree strongly on all points.

Teddy's good has far outweighed his bad this season. He's kept us in every game and he's bounced back from mistakes both in game and even the following games.

We've constantly seen all season how people act like any Elite Talent can work with bums.  Our oline are mostly bums outside of Moton and Okung (when he's not getting dinged which has been a problem throughout his career.). If ARod gets a pass when his best (and only real outside support despite having other functional enough players around him) is Teddy not getting the same pass for having an O-line, esp interior o-line where its been the most garbage in pass pro, espcially when you can just as easily argue this offense is only working so well because of him?

Trying to compare Teddy to Rodgers is already a fallacy, as Teddy's play has never approached the Rodgers level and Rodgers has done improbable things time and time again. Aaron has credit so to speak; Teddy has little to none, particularly in Carolina.

With that said it's completely fair to discuss the points and expect to see a guy trying out to be 'the franchise' do something improbable at some point. There have been opportunities but it hasn't happened yet and at times have been directly Teddy's shortcoming. Simple as that.

[Varking]

22 minutes ago, Rags said:

espcially when you can just as easily argue this offense is only working so well because of him?

We are in the bottom half in the NFL in scoring and one of the worst red zone teams in the NFL. 

[Rags]

24 minutes ago, Varking said:

We are in the bottom half in the NFL in scoring and one of the worst red zone teams in the NFL. 

We've discussed this bro. Our redzone offense has been iffy before Teddy got here, we've always relied on Cam and Greg as presences there. We've tried D.J. in the redzone all year, starting back in week 1 and he's not jiving there. 

Our redzone scores today were taking advantage of our playwrs skills. 

If you go back to just last year Teddy has shown he's not a problem in the redzone. 7 TDs no ints. Look at Jared Cook just today and its no surprise why Teddy was able to win in the redzone when you have players who thrive there.

We're a well oiled machine between the 20s. We fix our redzone woes our PPGs go up. You can't cherry pick stats with no context and say that debunks my argument.

[LinvilleGorge]

Teddy has been much better than I anticipated, but his weaknesses show up most glaringly in the redzone. He's a conservative QB with a below average arm. That's not a recipe for great redzone success.

[Rags]

28 minutes ago, KSpan said:

Trying to compare Teddy to Rodgers is already a fallacy,

Nope! Not in this case.

I'm not by any means saying Teddy is as good as Rodgers, he's not, Rodgers is an elite passer. My point is Rodgers is a flawed QB, too and needs things around him to play at his best, so does Teddy. So does any QB. Rodgers is just the most recent example. 

Just like I replied to Varking, problems with this offense Teddy in the past has shown that he can do when he has talent there to support him (in this case, Redzone). You can't just point at the amazing things Rodgers has done and ignore the things he does wrong when things aren't right around him, and the just shrug it off as "Teddy hasn't done improbable things" just because he doesn't dazzle as much as Aaron.

[OneBadCat]

I’d argue we don’t suck ass with the game on the line. Rhule is actually doing a good job with these guys to be in a position to win “with the game on the line”, despite our holes and our injuries.

Just have to hope they will come together and gel. We should have won the last two games.

Last week Teddy threw a bad ball to DJ which he should have caught. This week we call a stupid screen pass to put us in 3rd and long when we were dictating the game. 
 

Overall it’s really encouraging. Just sucks ass we don’t have a winning record because they deserve it for the effort.

[KSpan]

2 hours ago, Rags said:

Nope! Not in this case.

I'm not by any means saying Teddy is as good as Rodgers, he's not, Rodgers is an elite passer. My point is Rodgers is a flawed QB, too and needs things around him to play at his best, so does Teddy. So does any QB. Rodgers is just the most recent example. 

Just like I replied to Varking, problems with this offense Teddy in the past has shown that he can do when he has talent there to support him (in this case, Redzone). You can't just point at the amazing things Rodgers has done and ignore the things he does wrong when things aren't right around him, and the just shrug it off as "Teddy hasn't done improbable things" just because he doesn't dazzle as much as Aaron.

You seemingly ignored the rest of my post where that is all addressed. Aaron Rodgers (or Wilson, or Roethlisberger, or Mahomes, etc) absolutely do get a short-term pass in such cases to past elite performance because, as I said, no one expects to win all of them. Said elite performance instills confidence that there is a good chance the next opportunity will work out differently. They have shown they can drive the team to victory even if things aren't at their best around them.

Bridgewater (or other such QBs) has no such resume and does not get the same leeway. Until he builds it he can continue to be considered Alex Smith, Carolina edition.

[Rags]

4 minutes ago, KSpan said:

You seemingly ignored the rest of my post where that is all addressed. Aaron Rodgers (or Wilson, or Roethlisberger, or Mahomes, etc) absolutely do get a short-term pass in such cases to past elite performance because, as I said, no one expects to win all of them. Said elite performance instills confidence that there is a good chance the next opportunity will work out differently. They have shown they can drive the team to victory even if things aren't at their best around them.

Bridgewater (or other such QBs) has no such resume and does not get the same leeway. Until he builds it he can continue to be considered Alex Smith, Carolina edition.

Except outside of Hill and Charles, Alex Smith never had the tools like Teddy has with RAC monsters in Robby and D.J. (And CMac and sometimes Samuel)  to take advantage of his quick passing, something the 49ers have been doing with Jimmy G. On top of that Teddy has been taking more n more shots as he gets comfortable here and he has the time and read. 

Teddy has bounced back every time he has a bad showing, unlike Kyle last year. At what point do we stop shrugging that off? Everyone forgets no one expected this team to be THIS competitive. 

[KSpan]

25 minutes ago, Rags said:

Except outside of Hill and Charles, Alex Smith never had the tools like Teddy has with RAC monsters in Robby and D.J. (And CMac and sometimes Samuel)  to take advantage of his quick passing, something the 49ers have been doing with Jimmy G. On top of that Teddy has been taking more n more shots as he gets comfortable here and he has the time and read. 

Teddy has bounced back every time he has a bad showing, unlike Kyle last year. At what point do we stop shrugging that off? Everyone forgets no one expected this team to be THIS competitive. 

Your first sentence only supports my point, though you left out Kelce joining in 2013 and Hunt in 2017. Teddy has shown me nothing to date that makes me think he can win a Super Bowl outside of absolutely perfect circumstances, and that's not a QB I want to commit to at the expense of finding a true franchise guy, a la Smith and KC. I'm no NFL talent guru of course but Teddy's current contract structure, 3 years voidable after 2 with minimal cap hit, seems to say that the team feels the same way.

If he turns it on n and develops then awesome, a winning scenario all around. 

[Rags]

19 minutes ago, KSpan said:

Your first sentence only supports my point, though you left out Kelce joining in 2013 and Hunt in 2017. Teddy has shown me nothing to date that makes me think he can win a Super Bowl outside of absolutely perfect circumstances, and that's not a QB I want to commit to at the expense of finding a true franchise guy, a la Smith and KC. I'm no NFL talent guru of course but Teddy's current contract structure, 3 years voidable after 2 with minimal cap hit, seems to say that the team feels the same way.

If he turns it on n and develops then awesome, a winning scenario all around. 

Forgot Kelce and Hunt but Hunt was just a replacement for Charles more than anything (and no where near as explosive or elusive as prime Charles was, and this offense was being built to be replaced by Mahomes.)

You also forget that Smith was Ultra Conservative by nature.

I'm not saying that we can't upgrade Teddy. I've stated multiple times we can. But he's faaar from a hindrance for this team. He's taken shots when he's needed to. He's been smart and he's been accurate. There's nothing so far to say that Teddy is holding us back and some canon armed QB would change that.

Also, this is ~100% purely conjecture~ but the Chiefs had the best team for Alex Smith in 2014, and they were doing great against the Colts in that playoffs, Smith had over 300 yards, but they lost Huston and other key defensive players mid game, and then Andy Reid clock management happened, and Luck brings the Colts back, I don't think even a Mahomes level talent could've stopped that. That team was good and the injuries killed em.

I don't think it's unfair to say we can't build a 2013 chiefs for Teddy.

[KSpan]

9 minutes ago, Rags said:

Forgot Kelce and Hunt but Hunt was just a replacement for Charles more than anything (and no where near as explosive or elusive as prime Charles was, and this offense was being built to be replaced by Mahomes.)

You also forget that Smith was Ultra Conservative by nature.

I'm not saying that we can't upgrade Teddy. I've stated multiple times we can. But he's faaar from a hindrance for this team. He's taken shots when he's needed to. He's been smart and he's been accurate. There's nothing so far to say that Teddy is holding us back and some canon armed QB would change that.

Also, this is ~100% purely conjecture~ but the Chiefs had the best team for Alex Smith in 2014, and they were doing great against the Colts in that playoffs, Smith had over 300 yards, but they lost Huston and other key defensive players mid game, and then Andy Reid clock management happened, and Luck brings the Colts back, I don't think even a Mahomes level talent could've stopped that. That team was good and the injuries killed em.

I don't think it's unfair to say we can't build a 2013 chiefs for Teddy.

I don't think you and I are really that far apart here, and I agree 100% that the team will build to win with Teddy or a guy like him. At this point though I just don't want to see them forego obtaining someone more dynamic if the opportunity arises. Emphasis there on dynamic since I think Teddy is a good-but-notably-limited QB, as was/is Alex, and not a championship-caliber one outside of a stars-align type of scenario.

Maybe he proves that wrong. It's possible, and only time will tell.

[Rags]

7 minutes ago, KSpan said:

I don't think you and I are really that far apart here, and I agree 100% that the team will build to win with Teddy or a guy like him. At this point though I just don't want to see them forego obtaining someone more dynamic if the opportunity arises. Emphasis there on dynamic since I think Teddy is a good-but-notably-limited QB, as was/is Alex, and not a championship-caliber one outside of a stars-align type of scenario.

Maybe he proves that wrong. It's possible, and only time will tell.

Oh I absolutely agree. As I said in Scot's QB thread if there's a guy the team likes over an ILB, Ol, DB, whatever and feel they can build him, absolutely take him. 

I think Teddy is Different Enough from Alex though. Post 2014 Alex was a check down machine only rivaled by Joe Flacco. Teddy's Limitations are more on par with an Eli or Matt Ryan than a Bradford from what I've seen, but I've been wrong before.

[GoPanthers123]

CMC should fix that, he is our offense.