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Why Winning Now Will Cost Us About 15 Years

SaltnPepper

By SaltnPepper,
in Carolina Panthers

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SaltnPepper

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6 hours ago, weyco2000 said:

But you stated earlier participation trophies are for losers. 

Yep. And we didn't accept them the times I volunteered. 

We won our lost and accepted the outcome. 

Winning wasn't about me and my ego it was solely for the kids. We tried to win every game even tho we weren't very talented. 

Tanking obviously only works in professional sports under special circumstances. 

 

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SCO96

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I've watched pro football since the late 1970's. I've found this topic and the comments interesting. No one on this board disputes that you need an above average-great QB to win in this league and compete for championships. My problem with this post is the fact that the originator seems to think they key to our next 15 years is getting a QB in this draft. That's probably because of Trevor Lawrence will likely be in it. Would you feel the same way if wasn't coming out this year? If he decided to stay in school , would you still feel like we should tank everything for Justin Fields or whoever else would be the top QB?

Elway, Manning, and Luck were the most highly touted college QB's since 1980. All 3 were just as hyped as Trevor Lawrence. Elway didn't win a SB until the last two years of his career. And, he wasn't at his peak then. A strong team featuring Terrell Davis at RB is why he won those SB's. He was 0-3 in the SB (and each game was a blowout) before he got a team strong enough to win. None of the other hyped QB's from that 1983 draft ever won a Super Bowl (Jim Kelly, Todd Blackledge, Tony Eason, Ken O Brien, and Dan Marino). 

Manning beat Rex Grossman to win one title (2006) after almost a decade in the league. The Denver defense carried him in 2015. His play was so poor at one point that season (due to his neck injury) that he was benched for Brock Osweiler. Statiscally he had one of the worst games ever for a winning QB in a Super Bowl.

Luck's career ended prematurely due to injuries. But, he never came close to beating NE in the playoffs. And, if he were still playing he'd now be dueling with Mahomes, Jackson,  and Watson (in his own division 2x per year). That's not an easy path to a championship. If he ran the gamut in the AFC, he'd still have to beat the team in the NFC which is far from s sure thing. 

If Lawrence ends up in NY (on either team), Detroit, Washington, Jacksonville because of them having a bad record, do you really think he's just going to dominate the next 10-15 years? On the other hand, if a good organization moves up via trade to snatch him then He could be dominate for the next 10-15 years. It's not just about the QB. He has to have a surrounding cast and a strong front office to allow him to compete year end and year out.

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SaltnPepper

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18 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

I've watched pro football since the late 1970's. I've found this topic and the comments interesting. No one on this board disputes that you need an above average-great QB to win in this league and compete for championships. My problem with this post is the fact that the originator seems to think they key to our next 15 years is getting a QB in this draft. That's probably because of Trevor Lawrence will likely be in it. Would you feel the same way if wasn't coming out this year? If he decided to stay in school , would you still feel like we should tank everything for Justin Fields or whoever else would be the top QB?

Elway, Manning, and Luck were the most highly touted college QB's since 1980. All 3 were just as hyped as Trevor Lawrence. Elway didn't win a SB until the last two years of his career. And, he wasn't at his peak then. A strong team featuring Terrell Davis at RB is why he won those SB's. He was 0-3 in the SB (and each game was a blowout) before he got a team strong enough to win. None of the other hyped QB's from that 1983 draft ever won a Super Bowl (Jim Kelly, Todd Blackledge, Tony Eason, Ken O Brien, and Dan Marino). 

Manning beat Rex Grossman to win one title (2006) after almost a decade in the league. The Denver defense carried him in 2015. His play was so poor at one point that season (due to his neck injury) that he was benched for Brock Osweiler. Statiscally he had one of the worst games ever for a winning QB in a Super Bowl.

Luck's career ended prematurely due to injuries. But, he never came close to beating NE in the playoffs. And, if he were still playing he'd now be dueling with Mahomes, Jackson,  and Watson (in his own division 2x per year). That's not an easy path to a championship. If he ran the gamut in the AFC, he'd still have to beat the team in the NFC which is far from s sure thing. 

If Lawrence ends up in NY (on either team), Detroit, Washington, Jacksonville because of them having a bad record, do you really think he's just going to dominate the next 10-15 years? On the other hand, if a good organization moves up via trade to snatch him then He could be dominate for the next 10-15 years. It's not just about the QB. He has to have a surrounding cast and a strong front office to allow him to compete year end and year out.

I don't give a schit if he shows up on a bad team.

 

I cared that he showed up here. If he didn't pan out here then fine I can live with that at least we took our shot.

 

You need a great QB to maximize your chances of winning the Superbowl. That's just a fact.

You guys say it takes a complete team. Well no schit. Why can't we build a complete team and have TL. The two aren't mutually exclusive. 

 

Lastly none of you address the fact that it takes the average team 15 years to find a stud QB. Longer to find a top 5 in the NFL QB.

None of you have told me where we are going to find one.

 

Hell how many top QBs on average come out each draft?

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19 minutes ago, SaltnPepper said:

I don't give a schit if he shows up on a bad team.

I cared that he showed up here. If he didn't pan out here then fine I can live with that at least we took our shot.

You need a great QB to maximize your chances of winning the Superbowl. That's just a fact.

You guys say it takes a complete team. Well no schit. Why can't we build a complete team and have TL. The two aren't mutually exclusive. 

Lastly none of you address the fact that it takes the average team 15 years to find a stud QB. Longer to find a top 5 in the NFL QB.

None of you have told me where we are going to find one.

Hell how many top QBs on average come out each draft?

The fact remains that the #1 overall pick is never a sure thing. As I said previously, Cam was #1 and we could barely put together consecutive winning seasons. 

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SCO96

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8 minutes ago, SaltnPepper said:

I don't give a schit if he shows up on a bad team.

 

I cared that he showed up here. If he didn't pan out here then fine I can live with that at least we took our shot.

 

You need a great QB to maximize your chances of winning the Superbowl. That's just a fact.

You guys say it takes a complete team. Well no schit. Why can't we build a complete team and have TL. The two aren't mutually exclusive. 

 

Lastly none of you address the fact that it takes the average team 15 years to find a stud QB. Longer to find a top 5 in the NFL QB.

None of you have told me where we are going to find one.

 

Hell how many top QBs on average come out each draft?

I'm glad we don't have a coach or GM with your mindset? Based on your post you're saying that we should try to lose every game in order to get a player who isn't a sure thing. What makes you so sure he'd even want to play for the Panthers?

I'm old enough to remember Elway saying he wouldn't play for the Baltimore Colts. It led to him ending up in Denver instead of Baltimore.  Eli Manning was drafted by the Chargers even though his dad had said he did not want Eli to play for that organization. It ended up with Eli forcing a trade to the Giants.  Andrew Luck was considered to be the possible #1 pick or #2  coming out after his junior year. He decided to stick around for a 4th season in college. Matt Leinart (who was never as good as Luck, but great in college) also decided to stay for his senior year.

What would we do if we tanked a season, and Lawrence decides "I'm going back to Clemson for my senior year!"

Are we suppose to lose another 16 games in 2021 to secure the first pick in the draft in 2022?

What if he get's hurt? He could tear a knee up or ruin his throwing arm in a bowl game. Now what?

What if he decides "I don't want to play for a LOSING organization like the Panthers. They've never had back to back winning seasons in 25 years as a NFL franchise. I'm forcing a trade!" Now what would we do? We can draft him, but we couldn't make him come to camp. We'd have to trade him away for a kings' ransom. We could get some quality players, but possibly still not have a franchise QB.

I can see if you're so bad that you know you'll get a top 3 pick based on your record; and you decide to drop a season ending game to ensure a spot at the top of the draft. But, it's ridiculous to start a year with the intent of having a poor season to grab one player at the #1 spot. A team with that mentality is NEVER going to consistently win games at the NFL level and in all likelihood that top pick will get the bleep out of dodge as soon as he becomes a free agent.

 

 

 

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SaltnPepper

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7 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

The fact remains that the #1 overall pick is never a sure thing. As I said previously, Cam was #1 and we could barely put together consecutive winning seasons. 

That's true. But what if TL is better than Cam?

Cam was a top 10 QB but not top 5.

Could a possible upgrade in arm talent not possibly include more wins?

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SaltnPepper

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7 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

Also @SaltnPepper you should mentally start preparing yourself.. 

 

If TB keeps playing like this for the rest of the season, the discussion wont be who is the NEXT QB it will be how LONG of an extension do we give him...

Which means we win nothing for years.

I don't think he can win the Superbowl for us.

Alex Smith 2.0

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