Was Michael Oher's injury the worst thing to happen to this team in the last decade?

[JawnyBlaze]

4 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

FIFY

That’s up there, but just a result of my candidate for worst ever heh

[SCO96]

The Oher injury definitely led to an unfortunate series of events on the Oline and the offense in general. But, I think the worse thing that happened to Carolina was the off season after the SB year in 2015. 

Not Franchising Norman was a huge mistake. I can understand why Gettleman didn't want to pay Josh the salary that his agent was demanding. We could have kept him for another year, possibly two, if we had used the franchise tag. Josh would have never held out and passed on $13,952,000 in 2016.

1) Josh was at his peak then. He probably would have played hard to increase his value for the 2016 off-season thus making the defense better. With Josh I don't see us going 6-10 after a SB year.

2) We wouldn't have had to draft 3 CB's in the 2016 draft. Bradberry was a solid 2nd round pick. He may have still been taken with the idea that Josh wouldn't be around for 2017. Daryl Worley (3rd) and Zach Sanchez (5th) were WASTED PICKS. I doubt either would have been drafted if Norman was on the roster in 2016. We didn't have a 4th round or 6th round draft choice that year. We finished up by Drafting Beau Sandland in the 7th round. I can't him ever playing a down in the NFL.

3) Vernon Butler chosen with the 1st pick in 2016. I NEVER UNDERSTOOD this selection. You let a great 4-3 NT go in free agency and sign a DT who the coaches say is better suited to play the 3 technique. Thing is you already have Kwann (who was playing at very high level at the time) thus relegating Butler to a backup. Even more puzzling about the selection was the fact he wasn't a great pass rusher coming out of college. I don't think he ad 10 sacks in 4 years in college football. Needless to say, Butler never made a significant impact on the defensive line.

We literally have nothing to show for that draft in four years later. This is remarkable because we were in the SB the previous year with Cam and Luke in the prime of their careers. 

[thefuzz]

13 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

The Oher injury definitely led to an unfortunate series of events on the Oline and the offense in general. But, I think the worse thing that happened to Carolina was the off season after the SB year in 2015. 

Not Franchising Norman was a huge mistake. I can understand why Gettleman didn't want to pay Josh the salary that his agent was demanding. We could have kept him for another year, possibly two, if we had used the franchise tag. Josh would have never held out and passed on $13,952,000 in 2016.

1) Josh was at his peak then. He probably would have played hard to increase his value for the 2016 off-season thus making the defense better. With Josh I don't see us going 6-10 after a SB year.

2) We wouldn't have had to draft 3 CB's in the 2016 draft. Bradberry was a solid 2nd round pick. He may have still been taken with the idea that Josh wouldn't be around for 2017. Daryl Worley (3rd) and Zach Sanchez (5th) were WASTED PICKS. I doubt either would have been drafted if Norman was on the roster in 2016. We didn't have a 4th round or 6th round draft choice that year. We finished up by Drafting Beau Sandland in the 7th round. I can't him ever playing a down in the NFL.

3) Vernon Butler chosen with the 1st pick in 2016. I NEVER UNDERSTOOD this selection. You let a great 4-3 NT go in free agency and sign a DT who the coaches say is better suited to play the 3 technique. Thing is you already have Kwann (who was playing at very high level at the time) thus relegating Butler to a backup. Even more puzzling about the selection was the fact he wasn't a great pass rusher coming out of college. I don't think he ad 10 sacks in 4 years in college football. Needless to say, Butler never made a significant impact on the defensive line.

We literally have nothing to show for that draft in four years later. This is remarkable because we were in the SB the previous year with Cam and Luke in the prime of their careers. 

The sooner that people understand that 2015 was a fluke, the better off the fanbase will be.

That team got hot, Cam played his best football, and we got a lot of turnovers...luck was written all over the face of that team.  We had a shot, but blew it, then couldn't recover.

We would not have been the same team in 2016, even if we kept every single person on that 15 roster...which we literally couldn't do.

[SCO96]

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

The sooner that people understand that 2015 was a fluke, the better off the fanbase will be.

That team got hot, Cam played his best football, and we turned the ball over a lot...luck was written all over the face of that team.  We had a shot, but blew it, then couldn't recover.

We would not have been the same team in 2016, even if we kept every single person on that 15 roster...which we literally couldn't do.

I never said we were an all time good team. I agree we over achieved in 2015. That said, we won our division 3 years in a row from 2013-2015. We made the playoffs as a wild card in 2017. We were in the playoffs 4 out of 5 seasons between 2013-2017. There is no way we should have gone from 15-1 in 2015 to 6-10 in 2016. A strong draft class and better player management in the front office should have put us in a position to at least compete for the playoffs and division crown for the rest of the decade.

We let the one bright spot from that draft go this past off-season. Today, as stated earlier, we have nothing to show from that draft even though it was only fours years ago. You can't compete in the NFL consistently with poor draft classes like that.

[thefuzz]

3 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

I never said we were an all time good team. I agree we over achieved in 2015. That said, we won our division 3 years in a row from 2013-2015. We made the playoffs as a wild card in 2017. We were in the playoffs 4 out of 5 seasons between 2013-2017. There is no way we should have gone from 15-1 in 2015 to 6-10 in 2016. A strong draft class and better player management in the front office should have put us in a position to at least compete for the playoffs and division crown for the rest of the decade.

We let the one bright spot from that draft go this past off-season. Today, as stated earlier, we have nothing to show from that draft even though it was only fours years ago. You can't compete in the NFL consistently with poor draft classes like that.

We haven't ever consistently competed in the NFL.  We have been one of the worst run teams in the NFL over the past 15 seasons.

That season was an outlier, a fluke, we wouldn't have been nearly as good the following season, even if we could have kept the likes of Charles Tillman and Big Country...and others. 

 

16 was a normal year for the Panthers, not 15.

[t96]

30 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

The sooner that people understand that 2015 was a fluke, the better off the fanbase will be.

That team got hot, Cam played his best football, and we got a lot of turnovers...luck was written all over the face of that team.  We had a shot, but blew it, then couldn't recover.

We would not have been the same team in 2016, even if we kept every single person on that 15 roster...which we literally couldn't do.

15-1 season is always a bit of a fluke. Rodgers and the Packers went 15-1 and lost in the playoffs to the Giants I believe and won their SB with a 10 win season. We had a great team in 2013, 2015 and 2017, I don't think that is a fluke. Rivera/DG/Cam/Luke era definitely had some very bright seasons and mild success, just came up short in the end each of those years.

[Shocker]

I am not a big fan either but Mike Shula led the #1 offense in the league in 2015.  

Signing Matt Kalil was a desperate move and we paid hard for that fug up

[SCO96]

3 hours ago, thefuzz said:

We haven't ever consistently competed in the NFL.  We have been one of the worst run teams in the NFL over the past 15 seasons.

That season was an outlier, a fluke, we wouldn't have been nearly as good the following season, even if we could have kept the likes of Charles Tillman and Big Country...and others. 

 

16 was a normal year for the Panthers, not 15.

I totally agree that we haven't been run well for the past 15 seasons (or the past 25 for that matter). I also said you were right about 2015 being a year of over achievement. I didn't expect to go 15-1 in 2016. But I certainly didn't expect to go 6-10 either. 

Atlanta beat us pretty good both times they played us. Seattle beat us by 33 points. The Vikings beat us by 12. The other 6 games we lost were close. 4 losses were by 3 points; and two loses were decided by a single point. 

If we had kept Josh Norman and actually drafted a couple of players who contributed to the team we would have had a better chance of winning some of those games. Winning just 3 of them would have resulted in a 9-7 record and the Panthers finally putting together back to back winning seasons.

 

[French Navy]

Bad thread is bad.

 

Luke Kuechly should still be playing at MLB, for starters. 

[Sgt Schultz]

4 hours ago, thefuzz said:

The sooner that people understand that 2015 was a fluke, the better off the fanbase will be.

That team got hot, Cam played his best football, and we got a lot of turnovers...luck was written all over the face of that team.  We had a shot, but blew it, then couldn't recover.

We would not have been the same team in 2016, even if we kept every single person on that 15 roster...which we literally couldn't do.

I agree with this.  We had a couple of great players, a group that more or less had career years, and the rest gelled as a team.  That was especially true on defense, when we not only created turnovers by the truckload, we actually scored points while the offense was waiting to get their hands back on the ball.

But I agree, if they had fielded the exact same team in 2016, we were not going to repeat that magic.  Norman might have made them better for a season or two, but lightning wasn't going to strike twice like that again.  If nothing else, another year older, we weren't going to get as lucky with injuries, and the fact the Broncos provided the blueprint was going to bring that to an end.  Rivera was also more aggressive in 2015 than he was any time after that, which was out of character for him.

As for Oher, I don't think his injury was the biggest blow (Cam's shoulder tops it, I think).  Nor do I think a healthy Oher prevents Cam's injury.  Oher's concussion(s) were certainly a major factor, considering the only other OT we have fielded since is Moton.  But Oher wasn't going to last forever, either, and 2015 might have been his "last, best" season even if the concussion hadn't happened.

[Waldo]

Top 5.

# 1 is Hurney, both times. Trash Gm who creates teams that lose. Has not had a winning season this decade (including 2010). Has given plenty of reasons to be fired, in two different employment periods in this decade. 

# 2 Losing Oher to concussions led to a series of bad Oline choices that gave us #3. Fate fugged us here. 

# 3 Not being able to protect Cam and playing him when he was injured ending in us ruining Cam...until he went elsewhere.

# 4 Losing Luke early after playing him in 2019's tragic year where he was behind a Dline that only cared about sacks and was poorly constructed in a poorly planed 3-4 switch of desperation. 

# 5 Not adjusting in the SB resulting in Rivera getting his arse handed to him in a game he could have won. The players produced magic, all he had to do was ride their coattails and make simple adjustments. It's # 5 because it's so Rivera to do something this dumb. 

 

[Basbear]

23 hours ago, Riverboat Ron said:

Could've taken Chris Jones or Michael Thomas instead of Vernon Butler in 2016...

Chris Jones is the second best DT in the game currently, huge miss by Gman. Lusting after size numbers, got me in trouble too...

22 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

That was Gman. 

But JR bringing back 2.0 is the worst move in franchise history.

Winner, only team in NFL history to do this.  

[Castavar]

1 hour ago, Basbear said:

Chris Jones is the second best DT in the game currently, huge miss by Gman. Lusting after size numbers, got me in trouble too...

[Thorrez]

17 hours ago, thefuzz said:

We haven't ever consistently competed in the NFL.  We have been one of the worst run teams in the NFL over the past 15 seasons.

That season was an outlier, a fluke, we wouldn't have been nearly as good the following season, even if we could have kept the likes of Charles Tillman and Big Country...and others. 

 

16 was a normal year for the Panthers, not 15.

Please explain how "one of the worst run teams in the NFL over the past 15 seasons" has a winning record?

We are 5,5 games over 500 in the period you picked. If you want to cherry pick in 04 just after our first sb we are still over 500.

We are a mid pack organization just like a vast majority of the league is. No more och no less.