Stop with the tank for Trevor Bull(ish)!

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I wouldn't risk it. IMO, if you need a franchise QB and you think there's a franchise QB on the board you sit there and take him and don't risk getting cute.

This. If your guy is there when you’re picking you have to take him. I kind of like Lance personally. Seems to do the most with the least talent around him (granted he isn’t playing the top talent either).

[gmonjimbo]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

That might hold water except that Alabama and LSU have, year in and year out, exceptional WR's. In fact, they produce a TON of NFL talent at those positions. What has mostly been the case at Alabama and LSU is that they typically run much more conservative, old school offenses. It's easy for them to do that when they are leaps and bound more talented, bigger and deeper than the bulk of their opponents. 

They evolved not just because they finally had elite QB's but because college football as a whole started to make it much harder to just line up and be "better" than the team in front of you.

I respectfully disagree. Alabama had almost the same supporting cast and coaching staff during Jalen Hurt's tenure. Tua took them over the top because he was a difference maker with his accuracy and creativity. Hurts was still a good player, did well at Oklahoma and got drafted in the 2nd round.

In Joe Burrow's case, I believe LSU is as talented as any program in the country with the number of players they send to the NFL each year, however, their subpar to mediocre QB play prevented them from beating Alabama. Burrow's final season at LSU with Joe Brady took them over the hump and had arguably the greatest single season at QB. 

Lawrence is a great prospect. My concern for him is that when you get picked #1 overall you start at the bottom with the worst roster in the NFL. It is no longer going to be where you have the best 53, you will have to elevate your supporting cast. 

[Varking]

I’d be happier with Justin Fields but I don’t mind a college kid with just one loss on his college resume against the best college team of all time in a national championship game in Trevor. 

[jfra78]

9 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

I don't want TL because the Panthers will fug up his career. Let him go elsewhere and flourish. 

So you dont ever want the team you are a fan of to have a great QB?

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, gmonjimbo said:

I respectfully disagree. Alabama had almost the same supporting cast and coaching staff during Jalen Hurt's tenure. Tua took them over the top because he was a difference maker with his accuracy and creativity. Hurts was still a good player, did well at Oklahoma and got drafted in the 2nd round.

In Joe Burrow's case, I believe LSU is as talented as any program in the country with the number of players they send to the NFL each year, however, their subpar to mediocre QB play prevented them from beating Alabama. Burrow's final season at LSU with Joe Brady took them over the hump and had arguably the greatest single season at QB. 

Lawrence is a great prospect. My concern for him is that when you get picked #1 overall you start at the bottom with the worst roster in the NFL. It is no longer going to be where you have the best 53, you will have to elevate your supporting cast. 

Jalen Hurts is precisely what I am talking about. Take a look at Nick Saban's other QB's at Alabama have done prior to Hurts arrival. They didn't get(or recruit) those kind of QB's for a pretty good chunk of the time that Saban has been at Alabama. They are recruiting more dynamic playmakers than they used to and it is because that the game evolved to make that kind of athletic ability deadly. Tua was the better player than Hurts but I don't believe for a second that Jalen couldn't have won as much as Tua did at Alabama. 

LSU has beaten Alabama with better and worse QB's than Alabama. The biggest change at LSU that led to their success was basically their commitment to revamping their offense to be dynamic enough to take advantage of the best WR corps in college football and that allowed them to completely utilize the talent at QB that they had. Reference the prior season of Burrow, where he was mediocre at best. 

I understand the concern about talent and franchise state when you get picked #1 overall. That's very valid. However, we did pick up Cam at #1 overall and he did historic things. Don't mistake this for me comparing Trevor to Cam, he isn't nearly the prospect Cam was. But you can have success as a #1 overall draft pick, provided the franchise isn't in complete and total disarray.

 

 

 

Which....I guess that last statement is kind of valid....

[mrcompletely11]

17 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

I don't want TL because the Panthers will fug up his career. Let him go elsewhere and flourish. 

I would love to see how brady would develop TL

[jb2288]

24 minutes ago, Daywa1ker said:

How long is the list of superstar 'great NFL prospect' college QB's that bust or are consistently mediocre in the NFL?  Pretty damn long, much longer than the list of superstar college QB's that continue into NFL superstars

'But Trevor is different!' ....yeah, so was every other QB picked in the top 3

I'm a huge clemson guy and love watching Trevor, but I wouldn't be shocked at all to see him turn into Baker or Darnold

You said prospect. Trevor is the best prospect to come out of CFB since Andrew Luck. I have no idea if he'll be a HoF or bust, but he's the best prospect we've seen in years. You don't pass that up

[gmonjimbo]

17 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Let's be fair though. Alabama and LSU were only pedestrian offenses due to philosophy. It wasn't a talent issue. Not even close to it. I mean, LSU's offense was pedestrian with Burrow the year before Brady arrived.

I agree. I'm not necessarily talking about talent. I am pointing to the fact that Alabama was noticeably better offensively once Tua took over for Hurts and they had practically the same players and coaching staff at their disposal. 

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, gmonjimbo said:

I agree. I'm not necessarily talking about talent. I am pointing to the fact that Alabama was noticeably better offensively once Tua took over for Hurts and they had practically the same players and coaching staff at their disposal. 

I'll never debate that Hurts is better than Tua. Alabama definitely got on board with the modern offensive concept prior to LSU. Up until last season LSU was pretty much playing Fox ball.

[TheRumGone]

38 minutes ago, ncfan said:

1. No matter if we purposely tanked.  We arent beating out the Jets for the worst team.  Lawerence is becoming a run away lock for Trevor.

 

2. Even if we land Trevor. Unless we fix this OL, it wont matter.

 

This team is littered with holes and we have a coach on a Loong deal.  And honestly Bridgewater struggled yesterday, but he hasnt been all that bad.  Any QB getting the amount of pressure, in particularly up the middle, will struggle.

I’m also fine with sitting out our top 3 qb pick for a year so we can build up the oline. I know fans will want that pick to start immediately but I honestly don’t care  if the oline can’t protect him.

[jb2288]

3 minutes ago, TheRumGone said:

I’m also fine with sitting out our top 3 qb pick for a year so we can build up the oline. I know fans will want that pick to start immediately but I honestly don’t care  if the oline can’t protect him.

Yeah I mean I would hope we're smart enough to do this. Get Trevor this year (plus an easy year for cmc that doesn't take a huge toll on his body), let him sit behind TB all 2021 and let all the OL we draft after Trevor get some game experience, young defense gets better, then 2022 cut teddy to save that cap and turn it over to Trevor. I'm 100% fine playing the long game here. A 2022 with Trevor, DJ, Robby (getting old iffy on him in 2022), and CMC could be legit

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, jb2288 said:

Yeah I mean I would hope we're smart enough to do this. Get Trevor this year (plus an easy year for cmc that doesn't take a huge toll on his body), let him sit behind TB all 2021 and let all the OL we draft after Trevor get some game experience, young defense gets better, then 2022 cut teddy to save that cap and turn it over to Trevor. I'm 100% fine playing the long game here. A 2022 with Trevor, DJ, Robby (getting old iffy on him in 2022), and CMC could be legit

I am completely behind this if we are unable to build that OL enough to protect the QB. Teddy's contract is friendly enough to allow us to do that and he doesn't seem to be the guy that would be a negative influence on his eventual replacement. 

[gmonjimbo]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Jalen Hurts is precisely what I am talking about. Take a look at Nick Saban's other QB's at Alabama have done prior to Hurts arrival. They didn't get(or recruit) those kind of QB's for a pretty good chunk of the time that Saban has been at Alabama. They are recruiting more dynamic playmakers than they used to and it is because that the game evolved to make that kind of athletic ability deadly. Tua was the better player than Hurts but I don't believe for a second that Jalen couldn't have won as much as Tua did at Alabama. 

LSU has beaten Alabama with better and worse QB's than Alabama. The biggest change at LSU that led to their success was basically their commitment to revamping their offense to be dynamic enough to take advantage of the best WR corps in college football and that allowed them to completely utilize the talent at QB that they had. Reference the prior season of Burrow, where he was mediocre at best. 

I understand the concern about talent and franchise state when you get picked #1 overall. That's very valid. However, we did pick up Cam at #1 overall and he did historic things. Don't mistake this for me comparing Trevor to Cam, he isn't nearly the prospect Cam was. But you can have success as a #1 overall draft pick, provided the franchise isn't in complete and total disarray.

 

 

 

Which....I guess that last statement is kind of valid....

I agree with most of what you are saying. Alabama could have won 10+ game with Hurts,  but I felt they had a ceiling with him at QB. Also, I believe LSU had not beaten Alabama since 2011 until last year. What are your thoughts about Justin Fields? I have more concerns about him because Ohio State QB have not translated well in the NFL. 

[jb2288]

1 minute ago, gmonjimbo said:

I agree with most of what you are saying. Alabama could have won 10+ game with Hurts,  but I felt they had a ceiling with him at QB. Also, I believe LSU had not beaten Alabama since 2011 until last year. What are your thoughts about Justin Fields? I have more concerns about him because Ohio State QB have not translated well in the NFL. 

Only thing that concerns me about J. Fields is that he wasn't good enough to beat out Jake Fromm his freshman year. Which yes I understand that is a huge ask of a freshman, but Trevor did it. It's going to be hard not to compare the 2 in literally everything for the next 6 months.