we should trade burns while he still has value

[Varking]

On 9/27/2020 at 7:40 PM, Dragoon11 said:

No he certainly does not.... He really needs to gain about 15-20 pounds of muscle. I'm surprised he didn't seem to gain much weight this past off season. He was a bit disruptive this game and it made a difference, but his only move is that same speed rush, otherwise he gets manhandled. That being said, I think he can still be a factor, he just needs a little more time.

Like a few weeks?

[Sgt Schultz]

I'll admit it, I thought it was heading that way as a "failed experiment."  I don't think anybody thought Burns couldn't play, it was more that he would excel in a 3-4 and it was better for everybody involved if he got that chance.

Then.....poof.  Either he broke out, Snow and company did something with him, or he heard the team he was going to be traded to was probably the Jets, but whatever, the guy went into beast mode.

[panthers320]

Why do people constantly want to trade good young players who have proven they can play for unknowns. We finally get someone who is young and good and this forums immediately wants to trade them away. We still have Burns for 3 more years if we want. Moore is developing into a top WR, lets trade him away, CMC is one of the best in football lets trade him away. I get that we have holes but we are going to continue to have holes if we are constantly trading away good young players who are proven for unproven players.  

[Carl Spackler]

1 hour ago, panthers320 said:

Why do people constantly want to trade good young players who have proven they can play for unknowns. We finally get someone who is young and good and this forums immediately wants to trade them away.

Because most of the people on here are complete morons. 

[shaqattaq]

58 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Because most of the people on here are complete morons. 

[Sgt Schultz]

1 hour ago, panthers320 said:

Why do people constantly want to trade good young players who have proven they can play for unknowns. We finally get someone who is young and good and this forums immediately wants to trade them away. We still have Burns for 3 more years if we want. Moore is developing into a top WR, lets trade him away, CMC is one of the best in football lets trade him away. I get that we have holes but we are going to continue to have holes if we are constantly trading away good young players who are proven for unproven players.  

My concern was simply that he was not looking solid under the 4-3 (or 3-1/2 - 3 1/2 the way they did it), at least under the former regime.  He was being force-fit into something he just wasn't capable of.  Believe me, trading him was never my first option.  I thought he was a good to very good talent, just not under the scheme we play.

I know people were wanting to deal him after last year.  I personally wanted to see him under a new staff.  His first couple of games this year were not outstanding, but then the miracle happened.  That happens sometimes. 

Then again, trading CMC was never on my radar, either.  Some had the belief that once Cam was cut loose, the entire thing had to be burned to the ground.  With some, it was turning anything of value into more draft picks so people would not time-out before it was done, with some it was loyalty to Cam.

I'm not sure how the "burn it all down and start over" method was going to work with Hurney doing the start over, but that is a different issue.

[panthers320]

1 minute ago, Sgt Schultz said:

My concern was simply that he was not looking solid under the 4-3 (or 3-1/2 - 3 1/2 the way they did it), at least under the former regime.  He was being force-fit into something he just wasn't capable of.  Believe me, trading him was never my first option.  I thought he was a good to very good talent, just not under the scheme we play.

I know people were wanting to deal him after last year.  I personally wanted to see him under a new staff.  His first couple of games this year were not outstanding, but then the miracle happened.  That happens sometimes. 

Then again, trading CMC was never on my radar, either.  Some had the belief that once Cam was cut loose, the entire thing had to be burned to the ground.  With some, it was turning anything of value into more draft picks so people would not time-out before it was done, with some it was loyalty to Cam.

I'm not sure how the "burn it all down and start over" method was going to work with Hurney doing the start over, but that is a different issue.

He is 22 years old in his 2nd year in the league and in a brand new system with no offseason. Lets give him some time before we give up on him. Lets also not forget he looked really good at the beginning of last year before he got hurt/hit the rookie wall. 

It would be smarter to use our current picks and free agents to fill holes rather than trading away good young players and creating more holes. Thats how you turn into the Jets. Between 2013-2017 they have traded away 5 of their 6 1st round picks to acquire more capital to fix holes. How has that worked out for them. I dont know about you but I prefer not to be like the Jets...

[panthers55]

43 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

My concern was simply that he was not looking solid under the 4-3 (or 3-1/2 - 3 1/2 the way they did it), at least under the former regime.  He was being force-fit into something he just wasn't capable of.  Believe me, trading him was never my first option.  I thought he was a good to very good talent, just not under the scheme we play.

I know people were wanting to deal him after last year.  I personally wanted to see him under a new staff.  His first couple of games this year were not outstanding, but then the miracle happened.  That happens sometimes. 

Then again, trading CMC was never on my radar, either.  Some had the belief that once Cam was cut loose, the entire thing had to be burned to the ground.  With some, it was turning anything of value into more draft picks so people would not time-out before it was done, with some it was loyalty to Cam.

I'm not sure how the "burn it all down and start over" method was going to work with Hurney doing the start over, but that is a different issue.

He was a rookie last year. Anyone who wanted to trade him had to be one of the tanker people who wanted to lose out. No one in their right mind would get rid of him on a rookie contract after the production he has had. As for the miracle, that was Snow and staff giving him more 1 on 1s instead of being doubled so he could be effective. He is the same guy he has always been except a bit stronger with better technique.

[onmyown]

I’m not going to lie, I also had doubts about Burns in a 4-3. But he is a playmaker no doubt. Even injured he made plays. And he can put on some bulk. No way I’d give him up - he is the real deal. As I said the line is one dominant RE from becoming elite and I believe our BPA will be a DE round one this draft. I wouldn’t be mad. Stud DE round one, stud DB round 2 is how the draft is falling. Oline is just going to take more time.

[ImaginaryKev]

OP misspelled "Sign him to an extension right the fug now"

[ImaginaryKev]

29 minutes ago, onmyown said:

I’m not going to lie, I also had doubts about Burns in a 4-3. But he is a playmaker no doubt. Even injured he made plays. And he can put on some bulk. No way I’d give him up - he is the real deal. As I said the line is one dominant RE from becoming elite and I believe our BPA will be a DE round one this draft. I wouldn’t be mad. Stud DE round one, stud DB round 2 is how the draft is falling. Oline is just going to take more time.

This is absurd when Yetur Gross Matos is literally right there in the building already

[Sgt Schultz]

35 minutes ago, panthers320 said:

He is 22 years old in his 2nd year in the league and in a brand new system with no offseason. Lets give him some time before we give up on him. Lets also not forget he looked really good at the beginning of last year before he got hurt/hit the rookie wall. 

It would be smarter to use our current picks and free agents to fill holes rather than trading away good young players and creating more holes. Thats how you turn into the Jets. Between 2013-2017 they have traded away 5 of their 6 1st round picks to acquire more capital to fix holes. How has that worked out for them. I dont know about you but I prefer not to be like the Jets...

Who's giving up on him?  Read my posts in this thread again, I said I was on the verge of thinking he would be better served in a 3-4 BEFORE the miracle happened.

28 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

He was a rookie last year. Anyone who wanted to trade him had to be one of the tanker people who wanted to lose out. No one in their right mind would get rid of him on a rookie contract after the production he has had. As for the miracle, that was Snow and staff giving him more 1 on 1s instead of being doubled so he could be effective. He is the same guy he has always been except a bit stronger with better technique.

I don't think everybody that wanted to peddle him at the end of last year was necessarily rooting for a tank.  Some were frustrated and saw it as an extension of the futility of Rivera and Hurney.  We drafted a guy as a 3-4 Edge, then we don't really switch to a 3-4. 

My own feeling as I neared that corner with him is if he was not going to become what he was capable of in our defensive scheme, then we needed to move him for his benefit and before we destroyed his value.

I agree with you on the miracle.  Burns developed some, got accustomed to the NFL, and the coaching staff.....sit down for this.....put him in a position to succeed instead of doing the same things and expecting different results.  I don't think any of us have ever been able to say that about a Panther coaching staff.

At this point, we could be on the verge of a monster DL in the not too distant future.  If YGM solidifies and we find a partner in crime for Brown, they would be looking extremely strong.

[panthers320]

7 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

Who's giving up on him?  Read my posts in this thread again, I said I was on the verge of thinking he would be better served in a 3-4 BEFORE the miracle happened.

I don't think everybody that wanted to peddle him at the end of last year was necessarily rooting for a tank.  Some were frustrated and saw it as an extension of the futility of Rivera and Hurney.  We drafted a guy as a 3-4 Edge, then we don't really switch to a 3-4. 

My own feeling as I neared that corner with him is if he was not going to become what he was capable of in our defensive scheme, then we needed to move him for his benefit and before we destroyed his value.

I agree with you on the miracle.  Burns developed some, got accustomed to the NFL, and the coaching staff.....sit down for this.....put him in a position to succeed instead of doing the same things and expecting different results.  I don't think any of us have ever been able to say that about a Panther coaching staff.

At this point, we could be on the verge of a monster DL in the not too distant future.  If YGM solidifies and we find a partner in crime for Brown, they would be looking extremely strong.

Can we stop calling it a miracle. You act like he was some undrafted free agent who out of no where just found some magic. He is a very talented player who is finally healthy and adjusting to a brand new system. He had 4.5 sacks in his first 6 games last year then had wrist surgery. At the beginning of November 2020, PFF had him as the highest rated Panther. You call it a miracle just because he has 3 sacks in the last 3 games but he has been playing well all year. You're whole reason for trading him was because he isnt playing the position the previous regime drafted him for. He has the skills to play DE, yes he is undersized but that doesn't mean he can't thrive in the position. He is the same size/bigger than Yannick Ngakoue. If Terrell Suggs was here in his prime would you have wanted to trade him because even though he could play a 4-3 DE he was drafted as a 3-4 OLB?

[panthers320]

Oh wow, a 1st round pick who is healthy and now has had time to adjust to a new system is playing well , its a miracle!!!