Prime position for Lawrence

[Basbear]

Just now, mrcompletely11 said:

This is unbelievably incorrect 

Replacing 5 offensive line starters is not extreme?? BTW the top depth for that unit would be Little and Daley, still need at least two more. Has anyone seen #1 David Carr behind that expansion OL? I believe that unit gave up a NFL record in sacks that year, it destroyed Carrs career.  

[run-run-pass-punt]

What a fan base. 0-1 and ready for the draft.

[mrcompletely11]

15 minutes ago, Basbear said:

Replacing 5 offensive line starters is not extreme?? BTW the top depth for that unit would be Little and Daley, still need at least two more. Has anyone seen #1 David Carr behind that expansion OL? I believe that unit gave up a NFL record in sacks that year, it destroyed Carrs career.  

I was referring to your statement that its easier to find a franchise qb to a LT

 

Also I believe in peytons rookie year he was one of the most sacked qbs and he turned out okay

[mrcompletely11]

5 minutes ago, run-run-pass-punt said:

What a fan base. 0-1 and ready for the draft.

You thinking playoffs?

[LinvilleGorge]

57 minutes ago, Basbear said:

This will be a messy answer- Trey Lance is just preferred over the other 2, all could/should be top 8 picks. Not surprised if they all go 1-2-3. Burrow was a 6th round guy before he had the greatest season in college history, he looked great for the first game too. Carolina panthers have many Clemson and ACC fans, they focus on Lawrence. He plays with the best of best at WR, OL, and coaches. Ive found those guys are the hardest to grade, going 1st overall you will not have the same talent advantage.

Breaking my #1 #2 #3 #5 rule about picking Sewell over those three. Panthers 2021 is looking like they need 5 new starters(provided Paradis is cut, others are FAs). Daley could fill one of those, needs to get healthy and show he can soon. Spending a 1st-8th overall on QB behind that 2021 line would be a total waste. The poor guy would get murder or at best turn into a shell-shocked David Carr. Its harder to find a prime LT than a good QB. You could draft one of the three and sit him for a year or two, but that takes away the best advantage to having a QB on a rookie pay-scale. Sewell on talent/grading alone may be better than the 3 QBs too, hes that special.  2021 panthers OL forced me to make this choice. 

 

Teddy is likely going to be here next year even if we pick a QB in the 1st. You don't have to throw the rookie to the wolves 

[stbugs]

1 hour ago, Basbear said:

I know in my post history more than a few times I stated, "QB is by far the most important position in all of sports". Just takes extreme situation to break the golden rule, 2021 OL is just that. Plus it is easier to find a starting level QB than a LT one. Sewell is my pick. 

Sorry, gotta disagree here. We can argue over “starting level” until we’re blue but at the end of the day, QB is the most important position and it’s not close. All things equal, don’t want to hear about building a solid team around Teddy type stuff as if building around a rookie QB can’t happen, a LT will not win you a SB but a QB can. We went 17-2 with Oher and Remmers. We almost beat the Saints in the 2017 playoffs with Matt Kalil. Joe Thomas never sniffed the playoffs.

[Basbear]

1 hour ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I was referring to your statement that its easier to find a franchise qb to a LT

 

Also I believe in peytons rookie year he was one of the most sacked qbs and he turned out okay

Ive seen your posting and feel you have a good grasp on NFL. Its simple name the QBs and name the LTs. Keep in mind there a few players listed as LT, but only by name. Maybe only 15 true LT in the game and not many franchise ones. Compared that group to QBs and there are many quality QBs. Young Elite types, I found more QBs than LTs.  

I think you are talking about Peyton set the INT record that years, not sacks.  

[Basbear]

21 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Sorry, gotta disagree here. We can argue over “starting level” until we’re blue but at the end of the day, QB is the most important position and it’s not close. All things equal, don’t want to hear about building a solid team around Teddy type stuff as if building around a rookie QB can’t happen, a LT will not win you a SB but a QB can. We went 17-2 with Oher and Remmers. We almost beat the Saints in the 2017 playoffs with Matt Kalil. Joe Thomas never sniffed the playoffs.

I just feel putting a top five rookie QB behind a expansion level OL will be an epic failure. Set this org back 5, maybe more. Plus super high on Sewell, again on grading alone he maybe better than the QBs. That same thing happened to Carr, theres plenty of videos of him getting hit and running for his life. 

Example somewhat- Similar to putting a 50k motor in a race car/truck with 4 bald tires. 

[stbugs]

2 hours ago, Basbear said:

This will be a messy answer- Trey Lance is just preferred over the other 2, all could/should be top 8 picks. Not surprised if they all go 1-2-3. Burrow was a 6th round guy before he had the greatest season in college history, he looked great for the first game too. Carolina panthers have many Clemson and ACC fans, they focus on Lawrence. He plays with the best of best at WR, OL, and coaches. Ive found those guys are the hardest to grade, going 1st overall you will not have the same talent advantage.

It’s not the majority, but if you like Lance best then no way I’d take Sewell over him either. I definitely wouldn’t take Sewell over Lawrence and Fields because I don’t think we get to a SB with him and god forbid we field a team good enough for him to get there, then that’s a multi-SB winning team with say Lawrence or for you Lance.

Lawrence has been graded extremely high even before college. This isn’t Danny Wuerful or even Burrow. You could absolutely argue that Burrow had better WRs than Lawrence. Also, Burrow did nothing for 3 years. Yes, he had a great year last year but how about this tidbit. Burrow was 23 last season when he became a top prospect since as you said he wasn’t on anyone’s list for his redshirt-JR year (he played 5 college years). Lawrence was 19 when he became a top prospect. He’ll be in his 2nd year in the NFL at the same age as Burrow had his breakout year.

I don’t care how good the rest of his team was, what he showed his freshman year was special which is why he’s been the 2021 #1 consensus pick for almost 2 years now. That’s not Clemson fan hype.

[jb2288]

53 minutes ago, Basbear said:

I just feel putting a top five rookie QB behind a expansion level OL will be an epic failure. Set this org back 5, maybe more. Plus super high on Sewell, again on grading alone he maybe better than the QBs. That same thing happened to Carr, theres plenty of videos of him getting hit and running for his life. 

Example somewhat- Similar to putting a 50k motor in a race car/truck with 4 bald tires. 

But there's no reason to throw him right in next year. We have teddy on contract

[stbugs]

36 minutes ago, Basbear said:

I just feel putting a top five rookie QB behind a expansion level OL will be an epic failure. Set this org back 5, maybe more. Plus super high on Sewell, again on grading alone he maybe better than the QBs. That same thing happened to Carr, theres plenty of videos of him getting hit and running for his life. 

Example somewhat- Similar to putting a 50k motor in a race car/truck with 4 bald tires. 

How does it change with Teddy? I don’t understand how an expansion level OL does anything but hurt us, period, even with Teddy. There’s a reason why I didn’t want Teddy at all or Short. I wanted all the comp picks we could get and all the cap rollover. We were entitled to a 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th comp pick and we will likely get two. We could have taken 4 IOL with those and still had a full deck to likely go all or close to all offense. A rookie QB in 2021 and we still aren’t a playoff team so we should have decent picks in 2022 (like Luke and Gross as year 2 rebuild picks) as well.

[Jon Snow]

3 hours ago, Basbear said:

Replacing 5 offensive line starters is not extreme?? BTW the top depth for that unit would be Little and Daley, still need at least two more. Has anyone seen #1 David Carr behind that expansion OL? I believe that unit gave up a NFL record in sacks that year, it destroyed Carrs career.  

That was a long time ago and the most extreme example to base a decision this francisco defining on.   You have to be able to build a complete team around a really good QB.  Ask Cleveland how having an All pro LT contributed to their success.

[Mother Grabber]

10 hours ago, MGH1989 said:

A franchise QB is the hardest thing to find in the NFL. If you’re in a position to draft one you don’t pass that up.

sure, it’s where that position is on the draft board that’s the debate. the evidence shows that a top 5 pick is no better at finding a consistent winner than mid or late picks.

my argument is that you don’t have to panic to get the guy at #1, and you’re just as likely to get your franchise QB a year or two later at 15, 24, or even round 2 or 3. get your guy when the stars align, don’t force it and put yourself behind in the process. there’s always a half dozen prospects in each draft. which one will actually pan out hard to say. 

theres plenty of evidence to show that you need a solid team to win a super bowl. there’s very little evidence to say that a top 5 pick QB is needed. even not, single-digit pick aaron rodgers needs a team to back him up. 

[Mister]

We don’t need a qb