Prime position for Lawrence

[Shotgun]

7 hours ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Comparing NBA Players to NFL players is foolish.  Different sport, fewer people involved, far easier for one person to make a difference.  Its a lot easier to say a guy who only shares a court with 4 other players is going to be a difference maker than a football player who depends on so much else to be successful.  If Trevor Lawrence played for Northwestern, very few would even know who he is.  But if a great bball player plays for a relatively small school, he can make a world of difference, as Larry Bird did.  

And you missed my point.  I was primarily referring to all the comments about tanking to get specific players.  I grant that if we are in position to draft Lawrence, maybe we should.  But intentionally trying to get into position of drafting a guy who may or may not be a success in the NFL is a waste of time.  

As far one being higher rated than the other, how do you quantify that, ie determine who is rated higher?  Jameis Winston was the highest rated qb in the draft during his year.  Many pundits rated him a sure fire success.  Trevor Lawrence will be the highest rated qb coming out this year unless something drastic happens.  Not sure you can say that one is or will be rated higher than the other.  I have seen some guys in an effort to get clicks on their site use measurements and math formulas.    Most of those end up meaningless.  

If you look at the list of today's elite quarterbacks, almost none of them were the top graded qb's in their draft class.  Mahomes was not, Lamar Jackson was not, Watson was not.  Can't remember if Aaron Rogers was, but the point remains.  Aiming for a specific player by losing enough games is almost always a waste of time.   To difficult to get in that position, and no way to ensure the player is actually worth it until they are on the field.  

No worries,  Hurney is good at building teams that get the #1 pick without tanking.

[Boundary Guru]

Right about where we will be picking in a couple of years...

[raleigh-panther]

On 9/13/2020 at 3:18 PM, NAS said:

I don’t think they’re going to tank this year

I don’t think they will have to try .....

[Wolfcop]

Our defense is horrible, but the offense may be able to pull out 4-5 games. Any more wins than that would be incredible. 

[SizzleBuzz]

Jeu de cartes joker.

[Mother Grabber]

i’d much rather spend a few years building a solid team around teddy who did just fine. once there’s a badass team with a couple of years playing together, then we can worry about a new franchise QB. 

[stbugs]

12 hours ago, Basbear said:

I swear clemson fans are the main reason for all the Lawrences' hype. The scouts and professionals are leaning rather hard for Trey Lance. Wentz drafted #2 overall and has done it form the same school. Most feel Lance is a better Wentz, hes my pick between the top 3 QBs.  Id pick LT Sewell tho. 

C’mon. Lawrence and Fields were the top two HS prospects when they came out. Lawrence has been phenomenal in his true freshman and sophomore years. He’s not even 21 yet. I remember people comparing Burrow to him last year and I mentioned that Burrow was 3 years older. There is no Clemson fans manufactured hype, the media had already mentioned him as the 2021 top pick after his first season. Also, picking Sewell over any of these three if you believe they could be franchise QBs is a terrible pick unless you have yours. Cincinnati, sure. Us, horrible pick. Joe Thomas-esque pick over say Peyton Manning. In a year with no QB, sure, this year, horrible mistake. Something the Browns might do. M

[stbugs]

1 hour ago, Mother Grabber said:

i’d much rather spend a few years building a solid team around teddy who did just fine. once there’s a badass team with a couple of years playing together, then we can worry about a new franchise QB. 

This makes no sense. If you have a chance to take Cam, Luck or Manning, you take them and build around them.

Why is it some sort of either or? If you take a franchise QB, well above a Mayfield level too, do you just not build around them? Do we stop drafting?

That’s one pick and you shouldn’t just stop building the team. I don’t get the Teddy + solid team or rookie QB this year and shitty team. Why can’t we build a solid team around a better QB? That’s a great way to win a SB. We’ve been lucky as NO haters that they’ve lost close playoff games the past few years but they looked good again Sunday. I don’t like it but they are SB contenders again because they drafted well the past 5 years around a franchise franchise QB. Can’t stand them but I’d love to have be in their situation from 2016 to now. Brees is old now, but 2016 Brees compared to 2020 Teddy is a huge divide and NO built around him. It’s OK to try to do both.

[Mother Grabber]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

This makes no sense. If you have a chance to take Cam, Luck or Manning, you take them and build around them.

Why is it some sort of either or? If you take a franchise QB, well above a Mayfield level too, do you just not build around them? Do we stop drafting?

That’s one pick and you shouldn’t just stop building the team. I don’t get the Teddy + solid team or rookie QB this year and shitty team. Why can’t we build a solid team around a better QB? That’s a great way to win a SB. We’ve been lucky as NO haters that they’ve lost close playoff games the past few years but they looked good again Sunday. I don’t like it but they are SB contenders again because they drafted well the past 5 years around a franchise franchise QB. Can’t stand them but I’d love to have be in their situation from 2016 to now. Brees is old now, but 2016 Brees compared to 2020 Teddy is a huge divide and NO built around him. It’s OK to try to do both.

there’s a new one, or eight, every year. if you take a franchise QB without a line to protect him, you get david carr.

plus, we’ve seen several examples of a game manager with a good team win a championship. we’ve never seen a top shelf QB do it alone. 

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

The last time a team picked a QB first over all and ended up winning a superbowl with him was what..1989 with Aikman?

 

 

[stbugs]

6 minutes ago, Mother Grabber said:

there’s a new one, or eight, every year. if you take a franchise QB without a line to protect him, you get david carr.

plus, we’ve seen several examples of a game manager with a good team win a championship. we’ve never seen a top shelf QB do it alone. 

And what will Teddy do without an OL?

Also, you aren’t refuting my points. When a game manager like Trent Dilfer is replaced by a franchise QB, you get a multiple SB winning team.

We’ve seen a ton of top flight QBs win SBs. Stop trying to say that game managers win SBs more often. You have to have the perfect storm like Brad Johnson in Tampa or Dilfer in Baltimore. Did those two ever come close again? People will bring up Nick Foles and that’s a terrible example, he and Wentz combined for 38 regular season TDs and Wentz got them to HFA throughout by being the leading MVP candidate.

There’s a poo ton more franchise QBs taken in the first that have won SBs or been multi-year contenders. Some like Elway, Brees and the Mannings got over the hump and some like Cam and Luck didn’t quite buy sure got their teams into contention. Your argument is that they didn’t go it alone, well in football that’s always true but none of these top QBs had a Ravens or Bucs all time Ds either. If they did then those teams would have been multiple SB winners.

There’s a falsehood that you can somehow build a solid team around Teddy and that you can’t around a Lawrence, Fields or maybe even Lance. Heck, we’d have $20M+ a year more to spend for a few years. I could have a Khalil Mack too. Also there aren’t prospects like Lawrence and Fields every year. There’s a Mayfield and Darnold every year, but every once in a while there’s much better rated prospects. If every QB class was the same then there wouldn’t be a 1983 or a 2004. Peyton Manning and Jamarcus Russell would both be in the HOF.

[stbugs]

5 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

The last time a team picked a QB first over all and ended up winning a superbowl with him was what..1989 with Aikman?

 

 

Eli Manning down? Peyton Manning down? Elway won his SBs after Aikman did.

[LinvilleGorge]

21 minutes ago, Mother Grabber said:

there’s a new one, or eight, every year. if you take a franchise QB without a line to protect him, you get david carr.

plus, we’ve seen several examples of a game manager with a good team win a championship. we’ve never seen a top shelf QB do it alone. 

Oh please. For every Carr there's another guy who took a beating for a couple of years and turned out fine. The bottom line is that to land a legit franchise QB you usually have to be in a position to land a top pick and that means having a pretty awful team. Sure, sometimes you can get lucky as hell and land a Brady in the 6th or a Russell in the 3rd, or an Aaron Rodgers in the late 1st but usually getting that elite guy means having a single digit pick.

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

3 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Eli Manning down? Peyton Manning down?

Eli Manning won 0 superbowls with the Chargers.

I forgot about Peyton.

So 2 times in the last 31 years?  I guess thats enough to bank a strat on.

Last playoffs there were what.  2 total QBs drafted in the top 10 there past the wildcard round?