Panthers are not done at the cornerback position

[stbugs]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

He just wanted to stockpile compensatory picks and future cap space. I get it, but the team clearly has no desire to do that.

Yep, simple as that. I know we won’t be a playoff team this year or next year. I know Brees and Brady are going to be gone in 2022 and Ryan will be 37.

I was hoping for 2020 to be our 2001 and 2010 platform years that got us Peppers/Gross and Cam/Luke knowing that our key competition could easily be searching for their next QBs while we had one that could be graded as high as Peyton Manning and had a ton of cap rollover and comp picks to build out the depth, get our young guys experienced and be able to make big splashes in FA like the Chiefs just did.

Call it a tank and say how culture is more important and ignore the fact that we were truly in a potential gold mine of a situation to own our division for the rest of the decade.

[stbugs]

2 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I hope the plan is to trade him a few weeks in to a contender once they see he can still contribute.  Maybe a 3rd or  4rth. 

I’m betting he does just enough to get every penny of the contract.

[LinvilleGorge]

19 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Yep, simple as that. I know we won’t be a playoff team this year or next year. I know Brees and Brady are going to be gone in 2022 and Ryan will be 37.

I was hoping for 2020 to be our 2001 and 2010 platform years that got us Peppers/Gross and Cam/Luke knowing that our key competition could easily be searching for their next QBs while we had one that could be graded as high as Peyton Manning and had a ton of cap rollover and comp picks to build out the depth, get our young guys experienced and be able to make big splashes in FA like the Chiefs just did.

Call it a tank and say how culture is more important and ignore the fact that we were truly in a potential gold mine of a situation to own our division for the rest of the decade.

I'm with you. I really thought we were setting ourselves up for this approach with all the talk about not looking for quick fixes and all the focus on a 5 year plan, etc. Then we retain KK and his contract and go out and sign big money veteran stop gaps in Bridgewater and Robbie Anderson and now I don't know WTF we're actually trying to do. Putting together a roster to try to win 6-7 games is like self exiling yourself to NFL purgatory. Which honestly, 6-7 wins looks like the absolute ceiling for this roster while foregoing simple steps that would've greatly helped toward that 5 year plan concept.

[jfra78]

35 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Because we pay him a salary of $13M this year. If he plays that $17M in dead cap just adds to the new money in salary. I’ve gone through this a few times but here’s a simple version:

If doesn’t play for us our cap hits (bonus money that hasn’t hit yet) are $17M that could be spread across two years with a post June 1st designation. The spreading doesn’t matter for this, we just have to account for his already paid $17M.

If he plays in 2020, that $17M still happens and you add on $13M, so total cap hit is $30M ($19M in 2020 and $11M in 2021).

If he plays out his contract, that $17M still happens and you add on $26.5M in new salary. The total cap hit would be $43.5M, ($19M in 2020, $20M in 2021 and due to voided years $4.5M in 2022).

Since I see no point to having him around for rebuilding and he’s not a top DT anymore who can help us get to the playoffs, I’d rather take the $17M cap hit and save $26.5M or at least $13.5M since we are keeping him.

I will say it again, dead cap is just a label. There is dead (bonus money paid but spread to future years) money basically every year for almost every contract. You cannot erase dead money. People in here would freak over Short’s $17M in dead cap but not bat an eye when we use $43.5M in cap if he finishes his contract. We’d only pay him $26.5M in new money so that $17M is still there. People feel like dead cap doesn’t happen if a player plays. It does, it’s always built in, just accelerated if you release or trade them.

If he is playing then he is earning his money and it is not a waste.  You have an odd way at looking at things

[stbugs]

22 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

If he is playing then he is earning his money and it is not a waste.  You have an odd way at looking at things

Ok? Your response says nothing. I tried to explain what we save by not having him on the team and you have no reaction to that. As @LinvilleGorge mentioned, if Short isn’t in a 5 year plan, why waste the money?

Is Short going to get us to the playoffs? No. I’ll admit that if Teddy somehow emerges to be a super star then his contract is worth it. If he is what he was in Minnesota then we are 5-11 and it was a waste. Regardless, I can understand the argument that we are taking a risk paying Teddy because he COULD be in the 5 year plan. Short has no business in the 5 year plan so it’s just a waste.

You have an odd way of thinking that Short playing this year and unfortunately probably next year has a real impact. It’s odd to me that you think we should waste that extra $26.5M in new cash/new cap space instead of turning it into a when we can compete FA fund. You do realize there is a cap rollover now, right?

[stbugs]

40 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm with you. I really thought we were setting ourselves up for this approach with all the talk about not looking for quick fixes and all the focus on a 5 year plan, etc. Then we retain KK and his contract and go out and sign big money veteran stop gaps in Bridgewater and Robbie Anderson and now I don't know WTF we're actually trying to do. Putting together a roster to try to win 6-7 games is like self exiling yourself to NFL purgatory. Which honestly, 6-7 wins looks like the absolute ceiling for this roster while foregoing simple steps that would've greatly helped toward that 5 year plan concept.

Based on this thread there’s enough fans that can’t seem to put together the logic of building for the future. They live day to day with no foresight. As a fan, I feel like I’d rather have a clear plan and I’m OK with not being competitive this year. Some people in here don’t get cap rollover and how extra draft picks could help and can’t fathom acting like it’s a lost season. Unless Rhule is a god like coach, this year looks like a lost year especially with as competitive as our division looks. Hard to understand how people would rather limp along with a team that fights hard every year. I want to be the Patriots and own our division for the rest of the 2020s. We could not have asked for a better top QB draft class, better FA exodus for getting 4 good comp picks in that same draft and older/soon to retire QBs leading our rivals. I mean, Brees and Brady retire while we have Lawrence, Burns, CMC, Moore, Moton, our 2020 D draft class, 4 rookie IOL using the comp picks, 6 more offensive/LB/CB rookies and $90M in the bank for signing the top FAs/trading for them and signing them in 2022/2023 when we are ready to roll old Matty, Taysom and Jameis part 2.

[LinvilleGorge]

I'm just not seeing a clear direction right now. This roster is nowhere close to competing, yet we have significant cap tied up in veteran stopgaps.

[Jacabee]

20 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm just not seeing a clear direction right now. This roster is nowhere close to competing, yet we have significant cap tied up in veteran stopgaps.

The direction seems to be taking the middle road right? Trying to compete from the start as part and parcel of building a winning culture with young, developing players without mortgaging the future. The opposition is more about whether this is an effective strategy. None of what’s been done seems out of place given the reputation of Rhule that got him hired. The roster reflects what Rhule was brought here to do. Going to be an interesting few years, one way or another, but our owner hitched his horse to this wagon. 

[thefuzz]

27 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm just not seeing a clear direction right now. This roster is nowhere close to competing, yet we have significant cap tied up in veteran stopgaps.

Like I said a long time ago.

If feels like Tepper is in control on Mondays and Wednesdays.  Hurney gets his turn on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays.  Rhule owns the rights to Friday and Sunday.

 

[rippadonn]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm with you. I really thought we were setting ourselves up for this approach with all the talk about not looking for quick fixes and all the focus on a 5 year plan, etc. Then we retain KK and his contract and go out and sign big money veteran stop gaps in Bridgewater and Robbie Anderson and now I don't know WTF we're actually trying to do. Putting together a roster to try to win 6-7 games is like self exiling yourself to NFL purgatory. Which honestly, 6-7 wins looks like the absolute ceiling for this roster while foregoing simple steps that would've greatly helped toward that 5 year plan concept.

No compass. Erratic. Flailing. Trying to lead with deception, Shula football playbook. The NFL is a straight up hit you in the mouth and take your sht business. Deception won't work. The NFL has seen super smart owners come and go. Brute force and nuance best describes the NFLs best teams. If we're on the Trevor Train why did we need Teddy? Oh yeah, spite, smh.

I was a fan of new ownership until I saw the business moves. I'm in the skeptic corner for sure, until we go get Trevor. Say what you want about Cam but to watch our #1 dominate like he did was so much fun to watch.

We're an f'n expansion team again, local ownership wouldn't have wanted to see that movie again.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, rippadonn said:

No compass. Erratic. Flailing. Trying to lead with deception, Shula football playbook. The NFL is a straight up hit you in the mouth and take your sht business. Deception won't work. The NFL has seen super smart owners come and go. Brute force and nuance best describes the NFLs best teams. If we're on the Trevor Train why did we need Teddy? Oh yeah, spite, smh.

I was a fan of new ownership until I saw the business moves. I'm in the skeptic corner for sure, until we go get Trevor. Say what you want about Cam but to watch our #1 dominate like he did was so much fun to watch.

We're an f'n expansion team again, local ownership wouldn't have wanted to see that movie again.

I'm not hung up on Trevor. I am hung up on why Hurney is still here and why we're retaining and even adding high priced veteran stopgaps while talking about a 5 year plan. How is Marty Hurney or high dollar stopgap vets any part of a 5 year plan?

[rippadonn]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm not hung up on Trevor. I am hung up on why Hurney is still here and why we're retaining and even adding high priced veteran stopgaps while talking about a 5 year plan. How is Marty Hurney or high dollar stopgap vets any part of a 5 year plan?

Because Tepper doesn't understand the culture or the region or fanbase like Marty does so he keeps Marty in his hip pocket. Doesn't seem to be listening to Marty though.

[rippadonn]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm not hung up on Trevor. I am hung up on why Hurney is still here and why we're retaining and even adding high priced veteran stopgaps while talking about a 5 year plan. How is Marty Hurney or high dollar stopgap vets any part of a 5 year plan?

Also, I'm hung up on a franchise QB. Having one was great. Patriots will get 5-8 years out of that guy.

We've already been through not having a franchise QB. Jake is really the first?! Then Cam. Cam was fun to watch. If NE could open Gillette they'd have no problem filling seats with Cam. Same with Smitty, Olsen, I'm tired of our best guys being treated like total crap by non Panther outdiders. A freak of nature is a freak of nature look at Pep. Those are goldmines for medium market franchises. This applies to freaks of nature only like Urlacher, Luke, and in my opinion Smitty, Gross, Cam are included. Unless you're not trying to win, but you are.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, rippadonn said:

Also, I'm hung up on a franchise QB. Having one was great. Patriots will get 5-8 years out of that guy.

We've already been through not having a franchise QB. Jake is really the first?! Then Cam. Cam was fun to watch. If NE could open Gillette they'd have no problem filling seats with Cam. Same with Smitty, Olsen, I'm tired of our best guys being treated like total crap by non Panther outdiders. A freak of nature is a freak of nature look at Pep. Those are goldmines for medium market franchises. This applies to freaks of nature only like Urlacher, Luke, and in my opinion Smitty, Gross, Cam are included. Unless you're not trying to win, but you are.

I'm definitely hung up on landing a legit franchise QB, I'm just not hung up on Trevor specifically.

The last two clear cut, slam dunk QBs were Eli and Luck. Neither proved to be the best QB in those draft classes.