Panthers are not done at the cornerback position

[jfra78]

10 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

stbugs has a hard on to get rid of Short. If he is bad this year, I will agree with him. IMO, he is going to play very well this year(if healthy). If he plays poorly or is banged up all year, I will say stbugs was correct.

Agree totally

[NAS]

Shaq was worth keeping and him over Bradberry was the right call

[stbugs]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

You mean the guy that has missed an entire season of the past two years?

Is that a good thing at his age? We’ve had good success with that.

[stbugs]

2 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

Good pass rushers tend to get more chances to get healthy or rebound. Kind of like QBs. Plus we would take a cap hit cutting him. I think the thought was more on extending average players to big contracts. KK was playing great when we extended him...

SMH. We lose an extra $13M in cap space keeping him this year and an extra $26.5M in cap space if we keep him two years. We do not take a “cap hit” if we got rid of him before the season. Too late now anyway.

His cap hit this year is $19M and his salary is $13M so basically we have a $6M dead cap charge built in whether he was here or not. If he wasn’t we could have made him a post June 1st cut and only had that $6M cap hit. In 2021, we’ve got $11M dead money buried in his cap charge.

That $17M is a cap hit whether he was on the team or not. It’s just called dead cap if he would have been released or traded but it does not go away if he’s on the team. It just doesn’t have a bad label because it gets added to the NEW salary as the cap charge. For some reason people hate $6M in dead cap but don’t mind the same amount in the $19 cap hit for a $13M salary.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, NAS said:

Shaq was worth keeping and him over Bradberry was the right call

I disagree. Especially if Chinn ends up playing LB. I'm sure all of our opponents agree though.

[stbugs]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

stbugs has a hard on to get rid of Short. If he is bad this year, I will agree with him. IMO, he is going to play very well this year(if healthy). If he plays poorly or is banged up all year, I will say stbugs was correct.

He doesn’t even have to be bad in my opinion. We are rebuilding and Short 100% does not fit a five year plan. I’ve seen people who disagree with me say just cut him after this seasons. SMH. Why would you keep an expensive, not special, DT just for one rebuilding year? If he’s not in the long term plans why spend all that cap to see if he’s still got it?

I wanted to go for the top pick with Grier but that’s out the window so I’d still rather roll over as much cap as we can until say 2022. Wouldn’t it be nice to have an extra $26.5M to spend when our young D is established, we’ve got some halfway competent OL and maybe even a franchise QB?

Oh well, is what it is now.

[kungfoodude]

Just now, stbugs said:

He doesn’t even have to be bad in my opinion. We are rebuilding and Short 100% does not fit a five year plan. I’ve seen people who disagree with me say just cut him after this seasons. SMH. Why would you keep an expensive, not special, DT just for one rebuilding year? If he’s not in the long term plans why spend all that cap to see if he’s still got it?

I wanted to go for the top pick with Grier but that’s out the window so I’d still rather roll over as much cap as we can until say 2022. Wouldn’t it be nice to have an extra $26.5M to spend when our young D is established, we’ve got some halfway competent OL and maybe even a franchise QB?

Oh well, is what it is now.

It doesn't really matter. With a healthy Short, we have a formidable starting DL. Without Short, we are probably a bottom 10 starting DL. It isn't like we have any effective players sitting behind him on the depth chart.

I don't care much about the money. We can generate so much cap so easily that Short's figure really is irrelevant anymore. I am not sure why they decided to keep him. I suppose we will see whether he was worth the money or not fairly soon.

[TheSpecialJuan]

watch Hurney trade for Josh Norman 

[kungfoodude]

7 hours ago, TheSpecialJuan said:

watch Hurney trade for Josh Norman 

[jfra78]

7 hours ago, stbugs said:

SMH. We lose an extra $13M in cap space keeping him this year and an extra $26.5M in cap space if we keep him two years. We do not take a “cap hit” if we got rid of him before the season. Too late now anyway.

His cap hit this year is $19M and his salary is $13M so basically we have a $6M dead cap charge built in whether he was here or not. If he wasn’t we could have made him a post June 1st cut and only had that $6M cap hit. In 2021, we’ve got $11M dead money buried in his cap charge.

That $17M is a cap hit whether he was on the team or not. It’s just called dead cap if he would have been released or traded but it does not go away if he’s on the team. It just doesn’t have a bad label because it gets added to the NEW salary as the cap charge. For some reason people hate $6M in dead cap but don’t mind the same amount in the $19 cap hit for a $13M salary.

How do we lose cap space if he is playing? 

[jfra78]

7 hours ago, stbugs said:

He doesn’t even have to be bad in my opinion. We are rebuilding and Short 100% does not fit a five year plan. I’ve seen people who disagree with me say just cut him after this seasons. SMH. Why would you keep an expensive, not special, DT just for one rebuilding year? If he’s not in the long term plans why spend all that cap to see if he’s still got it?

I wanted to go for the top pick with Grier but that’s out the window so I’d still rather roll over as much cap as we can until say 2022. Wouldn’t it be nice to have an extra $26.5M to spend when our young D is established, we’ve got some halfway competent OL and maybe even a franchise QB?

Oh well, is what it is now.

Sounds like you just want to tank

[kungfoodude]

2 hours ago, jfra78 said:

Sounds like you just want to tank

He just wanted to stockpile compensatory picks and future cap space. I get it, but the team clearly has no desire to do that.

[mrcompletely11]

10 hours ago, stbugs said:

He doesn’t even have to be bad in my opinion. We are rebuilding and Short 100% does not fit a five year plan. I’ve seen people who disagree with me say just cut him after this seasons. SMH. Why would you keep an expensive, not special, DT just for one rebuilding year? If he’s not in the long term plans why spend all that cap to see if he’s still got it?

I wanted to go for the top pick with Grier but that’s out the window so I’d still rather roll over as much cap as we can until say 2022. Wouldn’t it be nice to have an extra $26.5M to spend when our young D is established, we’ve got some halfway competent OL and maybe even a franchise QB?

Oh well, is what it is now.

I hope the plan is to trade him a few weeks in to a contender once they see he can still contribute.  Maybe a 3rd or  4rth. 

[stbugs]

4 hours ago, jfra78 said:

How do we lose cap space if he is playing? 

Because we pay him a salary of $13M this year. If he plays that $17M in dead cap just adds to the new money in salary. I’ve gone through this a few times but here’s a simple version:

If doesn’t play for us our cap hits (bonus money that hasn’t hit yet) are $17M that could be spread across two years with a post June 1st designation. The spreading doesn’t matter for this, we just have to account for his already paid $17M.

If he plays in 2020, that $17M still happens and you add on $13M, so total cap hit is $30M ($19M in 2020 and $11M in 2021).

If he plays out his contract, that $17M still happens and you add on $26.5M in new salary. The total cap hit would be $43.5M, ($19M in 2020, $20M in 2021 and due to voided years $4.5M in 2022).

Since I see no point to having him around for rebuilding and he’s not a top DT anymore who can help us get to the playoffs, I’d rather take the $17M cap hit and save $26.5M or at least $13.5M since we are keeping him.

I will say it again, dead cap is just a label. There is dead (bonus money paid but spread to future years) money basically every year for almost every contract. You cannot erase dead money. People in here would freak over Short’s $17M in dead cap but not bat an eye when we use $43.5M in cap if he finishes his contract. We’d only pay him $26.5M in new money so that $17M is still there. People feel like dead cap doesn’t happen if a player plays. It does, it’s always built in, just accelerated if you release or trade them.