How different are we than last year?

[jfra78]

6 minutes ago, nctarheelreincarnated said:

Lol. Nice one bro! 
 

na, I’m just realistic when it comes to poo. I did miss the weird sunshine pumping on here over the years. No matter how shitty things are, there’s always someone that tries to sunshine pump regardless. The stadium could implode in the middle of a game. But the sunshine pumpers would go “hey, at least the players died as Panthers.”

 

I will give you some credit. You don’t see them getting over 5 wins.  

Pessimists call themselves realists to make them feel better about themselves.  Truth is, reality is somewhere in between.  When things could go good or bad, I choose to believe that they can go good. Optimists are really the realists, because they know that things can go wrong and just hope that they dont. You keep being you and I will keep being me

[nctarheelreincarnated]

1 minute ago, jfra78 said:

Pessimists call themselves realists to make them feel better about themselves.  Truth is, reality is somewhere in between.  When things could go good or bad, I choose to believe that they can go good. Optimists are really the realists, because they know that things can go wrong and just hope that they dont. You keep being you and I will keep being me

Yes sir! I will do that! Good talk! 

[Happy Panther]

I think the good thing about this aspect of our team is it makes it harder to scout us. What kind of schemes is Derrick Brown going to run under a new coach in the NFL? Who knows...

[bababoey]

7 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Here are some numbers I crunched to see exactly how big the overhaul was.

Active Roster Players Returning: 45%

Total Games Started Returning: 41%

Total Snaps Returning: 44%

 

That is pretty crazy to see in numerical form. 

All that adds up to 438%.  Math is hard.

[SmittysLawnGuy]

Not much but old suck < new suck!!!

[Sgt Schultz]

Given the alternative: another offseason acting like we are only three or four players away, signing three or four players, then discovering we were more than three or four players away, then rinsing and repeating…..I think I’ll hang in there to see how this works out.  Who knows, we may get to the point where we really do enter an offseason only three or four players away from pay dirt.

We all knew that when the patchwork approach came to an end, it was not going to be pretty. 

[kungfoodude]

12 hours ago, Basbear said:

Nice list, is this the beginning of 2019 or the end? 

I took the roster figure from the end of 2019. All the remaining figures were technically for every player that played even one snap for us(PFR data used). 

[kungfoodude]

11 hours ago, jfra78 said:

Pessimists call themselves realists to make them feel better about themselves.  Truth is, reality is somewhere in between.  When things could go good or bad, I choose to believe that they can go good. Optimists are really the realists, because they know that things can go wrong and just hope that they dont. You keep being you and I will keep being me

Ah yes......the American sickness. The need to divide people into warring camps. 

How decidedly anti-optimistic that is.

[kungfoodude]

8 hours ago, Sgt Schultz said:

Given the alternative: another offseason acting like we are only three or four players away, signing three or four players, then discovering we were more than three or four players away, then rinsing and repeating…..I think I’ll hang in there to see how this works out.  Who knows, we may get to the point where we really do enter an offseason only three or four players away from pay dirt.

 

 

We all knew that when the patchwork approach came to an end, it was not going to be pretty. 

I was not a fan of the "burn it all to the ground" approach because we would likely end up so bad for quite some time. But, we had been pretty derelict in terms of effective roster building through the draft, so I suppose it was inevitable we were going to be awful anyway.

[stbugs]

3 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I was not a fan of the "burn it all to the ground" approach because we would likely end up so bad for quite some time. But, we had been pretty derelict in terms of effective roster building through the draft, so I suppose it was inevitable we were going to be awful anyway.

Very much this. We got two quality players in the last two drafts before this year. You can’t do that with an aging roster and expect to improve. I know the Gettleman hate runs clear but look at the 2017 draft, we got (KC got one too) 4 guys who started/played a lot of snaps in CMC, Moton, Samuel and Butker. I won’t rehash Butker but he was a solid pick. You also got Armah and Elder who are still on the team. Elder might even be an example for the talent not improving enough that he is shockingly still on the team. I’m glad it appears that new blood came into the draft room this year but we 100% had to rebuild because we didn’t have the talent in place to go crazy in FA. We did sign way more than I expected and didn’t let go some of some dead weight but we didn’t try to go for it.

[Sgt Schultz]

3 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I was not a fan of the "burn it all to the ground" approach because we would likely end up so bad for quite some time. But, we had been pretty derelict in terms of effective roster building through the draft, so I suppose it was inevitable we were going to be awful anyway.

I think part of that is the fact that we swung and missed so often at positions of need.  WR comes to mind.  Then add to that we would think we found a diamond in the rough in a middle round, only to have that diamond be a hunk of coal.

The burn, baby, burn approach might have been the only realistic option once we shifted gears in terms of getting a coach who was not defense wins, more defense helps defense win, and it all works if our offense does not get in the way.  We followed up Fox with Rivera, so it was just a different variation of the Buddy Ryan approach.  And I say that as a fan who appreciates a tenacious defense.  But, between that and the aging of the roster due to what you mentioned, limited young talent coming up through the ranks.....and an on-field approach not conducive to developing any that was not obvious, here we are. 

I'd feel a lot better about the burn and rebuild approach if the guy in charge of making the picks (at least by title) was not the same guy who led the patchwork approach.  He is still capable, if left unchecked, or seeing a player nobody else sees in the second or third round at the expense of a real need or talent, only to later discover why nobody else saw that hunk of coal as a diamond.

[kungfoodude]

Just now, stbugs said:

Very much this. We got two quality players in the last two drafts before this year. You can’t do that with an aging roster and expect to improve. I know the Gettleman hate runs clear but look at the 2017 draft, we got (KC got one too) 4 guys who started/played a lot of snaps in CMC, Moton, Samuel and Butker. I won’t rehash Butker but he was a solid pick. You also got Armah and Elder who are still on the team. Elder might even be an example for the talent not improving enough that he is shockingly still on the team. I’m glad it appears that new blood came into the draft room this year but we 100% had to rebuild because we didn’t have the talent in place to go crazy in FA. We did sign way more than I expected and didn’t let go some of some dead weight but we didn’t try to go for it.

The Gettleman years were the start of the roster decline due to poor drafting which Hurney has largely accelerated. Outside of 2017, Gettleman only had four players to make it past their rookie contracts here. That's pretty terrible. Gettleman was the king of whiffing on first round draft picks, a place which Hurney excels but Hurney is awful after the first round, a place where Gettleman found much more success. 

So, between those two pretty awful GM's, they have basically created what we are seeing now. The least talented roster in the history of the franchise. 

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

I think part of that is the fact that we swung and missed so often at positions of need.  WR comes to mind.  Then add to that we would think we found a diamond in the rough in a middle round, only to have that diamond be a hunk of coal.

The burn, baby, burn approach might have been the only realistic option once we shifted gears in terms of getting a coach who was not defense wins, more defense helps defense win, and it all works if our offense does not get in the way.  We followed up Fox with Rivera, so it was just a different variation of the Buddy Ryan approach.  And I say that as a fan who appreciates a tenacious defense.  But, between that and the aging of the roster due to what you mentioned, limited young talent coming up through the ranks.....and an on-field approach not conducive to developing any that was not obvious, here we are. 

I'd feel a lot better about the burn and rebuild approach if the guy in charge of making the picks (at least by title) was not the same guy who led the patchwork approach.  He is still capable, if left unchecked, or seeing a player nobody else sees in the second or third round at the expense of a real need or talent, only to later discover why nobody else saw that hunk of coal as a diamond.

Yeah, even the most optimistic of future outlooks will be clouded by the fact that we have a general manager that oversaw that dramatic decline and has continued to whiff on 2nd-4th round picks. There is only so much we can hope for when you have poor talent evaluation around. 

I will never understand why we decided to stick with Marty. The only logical theory I have is that Marty is essentially going to get set up to take the fall for Tepper and/or Rhule's poor initial showings. 

[Sgt Schultz]

16 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, even the most optimistic of future outlooks will be clouded by the fact that we have a general manager that oversaw that dramatic decline and has continued to whiff on 2nd-4th round picks. There is only so much we can hope for when you have poor talent evaluation around. 

I will never understand why we decided to stick with Marty. The only logical theory I have is that Marty is essentially going to get set up to take the fall for Tepper and/or Rhule's poor initial showings. 

I think I can explain it.  Hurney has 8x10 glossies of Tepper.

It is possible things will change this year.  At least that is my hope.  I don't mind it if Hurney has a role, but not as the guy pulling the trigger on draft picks.  That said, there were some indications that Rhule or someone kept him on a leash during this draft.