Best WR's at creating separation.

[stbugs]

20 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Would it come as any surprise to learn that Hurney was bidding against himself for Anderson, Paradis, and Bridgewater? Hell, it might be more surprising to learn that he wasn't.

Not at all. Based on all of the discounted vet QBs and the best WR draft in many years, it’s not surprising that we paid a lot for Bridgewater and Anderson. Of course and signing the hot commodities of Seth Roberts and Pharaoh Cooper. Of course, we still think we are going to play well enough to waste money on Short.

I hate to rehash but our timing to move on from Cam was just about perfect. 2020 big D draft, tons of FAs going away to save a ton of cap ($90M without Short, Teddy and Anderson), 4 comp picks including a 3rd, Brady and Brees retiring while our young guys get acclimated, Ryan getting closer to 40 and the best top of the draft QBs in years. We could have had an epic 2021 draft with a franchise QB and OL our the wazoo. Could have taken the best available 4 IOL with each of the comp picks and still had a full set of picks to load up on O. Could have rolled over all that cap to sign two Khalil Mack level FAs in year 2/3 of the rebuild and kept Moore and Moton. We could have owned the South for years and made multiple deep playoff runs. Instead, just like the last few years, we thought we could compete so we didn’t want extra picks or tens of millions of extra cap space.

This will be a wasted year anyway, would have been perfect to go full rebuild.

Anyway, I think I’m done with that spiel. Can’t change it now. Hopefully, we still pick up a stud QB in the next draft of two. We need our next Cam. I had no issue not committing a huge deal to him at this point but he needs a real replacement.

[Moo Daeng]

21 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Would it come as any surprise to learn that Hurney was bidding against himself for Anderson, Paradis, and Bridgewater? Hell, it might be more surprising to learn that he wasn't.

Anderson made $4 million less than was predicted prior to free agency and exactly what the Jets were expected to pay to keep him.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2868738-jets-rumors-robby-anderson-seeking-10m-annually-on-next-contract-as-free-agent

https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/robby-andersons-nfl-free-agency-woes-should-lead-him-back-to-jets/

 

Bridgewater was talking to the Bears and we paid exactly what he was being rumored with Chicago.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/03/16/bears-are-talking-to-teddy-bridgewater/

 

Paradis was in talks to resign with Denver just days before he signed with Carolina and was also linked to the Jets.

 

 

 

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Moo Daeng said:

Anderson made $4 million less than was predicted prior to free agency and exactly what the Jets were expected to pay to keep him.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2868738-jets-rumors-robby-anderson-seeking-10m-annually-on-next-contract-as-free-agent

https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/robby-andersons-nfl-free-agency-woes-should-lead-him-back-to-jets/

 

Bridgewater was talking to the Bears and we paid exactly what he was being rumored with Chicago.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/03/16/bears-are-talking-to-teddy-bridgewater/

 

Paradis was in talks to resign with Denver just days before he signed with Carolina and was also linked to the Jets.

 

 

 

The reality is that we rarely ever know what these guys were being offered or if they're even fielding legit offers. Most of these rumors and "reports" usually come from the agents who are obviously trying to maximize their client's value.

[GoobyPls]

46 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Keep telling yourself that. It's like the opposing fans who knock CMC. If opposing defenses could slow these guys down they would.

It called bend don’t break most teams play that style.

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

It called bend don’t break most teams play that style.

If they could stop those guys from bending the poo out of them they would. Field position matters. If one guy is piecing you up, it's not because you're just letting it happen. It's because you can't do anything about it.

[Jacabee]

9 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Allen actually throws a nice short to medium range ball, but his deep ball sucks. Expect the same from Teddy.

Agreed on Allen.  Was at the AZ game last year where he hit some absolute gems, even on the run. The greater issue with him was that he never seemed to apply a comprehensive understanding of the offense. Very rarely did we have a successful play in which he had to move off his first or second read.

I know you’re pessimistic about Teddy, but I think he could surprise with his acuity in this area, especially given familiarity with Brady. The Saints and Thomas are actually a great example of the fact that you don’t need to excel at the deep ball to be successful. Why take the higher risk deep throw when you can achieve comparable success with a lower risk intermediate throw? The trade-off is of course tighter defense, tighter windows and to succeed you need better decision making to match. 

I’d bet money that Samuel was often running free because the defense knew Allen was either hitting Moore on the cut or checking down to CMC. 

[Jacabee]

19 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

It called bend don’t break most teams play that style.

The foundation of this philosophy is that the more times you force the offense to execute, the more likely they are to fail (with ball control being a secondary goal in some circles). 

That only holds water if there is an acceptable chance of failure on any given offensive play. The combination of size, speed and physicality that Thomas brings to the intermediate passing game make him nearly impervious to being guarded. His stats and the team’s success speak for themselves— he tilts the balance in favor of the offense against “bend but don’t break.”

[kungfoodude]

16 minutes ago, Jacabee said:

Agreed on Allen.  Was at the AZ game last year where he hit some absolute gems, even on the run. The greater issue with him was that he never seemed to apply a comprehensive understanding of the offense. Very rarely did we have a successful play in which he had to move off his first or second read.

I know you’re pessimistic about Teddy, but I think he could surprise with his acuity in this area, especially given familiarity with Brady. The Saints and Thomas are actually a great example of the fact that you don’t need to excel at the deep ball to be successful. Why take the higher risk deep throw when you can achieve comparable success with a lower risk intermediate throw? The trade-off is of course tighter defense, tighter windows and to succeed you need better decision making to match. 

I’d bet money that Samuel was often running free because the defense knew Allen was either hitting Moore on the cut or checking down to CMC. 

I think the pessimism about Teddy isn't necessarily people thinking he sucks. We just don't have a situation that is set up for him to succeed, given his specific weaknesses over his career. If we had a top 10 OL, I would be much more optimistic. But, if we had a top 10 OL, we'd still have a franchise QB.

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think the pessimism about Teddy isn't necessarily people thinking he sucks. We just don't have a situation that is set up for him to succeed, given his specific weaknesses over his career. If we had a top 10 OL, I would be much more optimistic. But, if we had a top 10 OL, we'd still have a franchise QB.

Yep. I'm not sugarcoating it - I don't think he's very good. But my expectations would be different if we looked set to field a top defense and a quality OL. I honestly expect our D to be at or near the bottom of the league and our OL to likely be in the bottom third. You better have an MVP caliber QB to have any chance of overcoming those deficiencies and the odds then still wouldn't be great. Maybe you could luck into a wildcard spot if you caught some breaks and then get your clock cleaned in the 1st round of the playoffs.

[GoobyPls]

27 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

If they could stop those guys from bending the poo out of them they would. Field position matters. If one guy is piecing you up, it's not because you're just letting it happen. It's because you can't do anything about it.

It’s hard to stop them when you have an offensive genius at OC constantly creating new ways to exploit and find mismatches. That’s why guys like Colston who didn’t have success anywhere else was able to flourish in that system. 

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

It’s hard to stop them when you have an offensive genius at OC constantly creating new ways to exploit and find mismatches. That’s why guys like Colston who didn’t have success anywhere else was able to flourish in that system. 

Or it was simply because Colston was shot when they released him. His final season there was by far his worst. He was just done as a player and that's why they released him and why he never did anything anywhere else. Don't get me wrong, playing in a great offense with a HOF QB is a great thing for any skill position player, but plenty of guys fail in those systems anyway because they're simply not good enough. If you're good, you're good.

[GoobyPls]

9 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Or it was simply because Colston was shot when they released him. His final season there was by far his worst. He was just done as a player and that's why they released him and why he never did anything anywhere else. Don't get me wrong, playing in a great offense with a HOF QB is a great thing for any skill position player, but plenty of guys fail in those systems anyway because they're simply not good enough. If you're good, you're good.

Theirs good and then theirs great like this article is stating, Thomas is good but a possession receiver can never be put in the great category. Look at the best receivers over the past decade AB, Julio, Calvin all where able to take the top off a defense, same goes with greats of all time Rice, Moss ext. Without that element you can’t be in that category

 

I always put into context, where ever you rank Thomas you better think that highly of Courtland Sutton who is basically the same WR, the only difference being offensive system. The film says theirs nothing Thomas does better than Sutton and vice versa.

[Jacabee]

15 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think the pessimism about Teddy isn't necessarily people thinking he sucks. We just don't have a situation that is set up for him to succeed, given his specific weaknesses over his career. If we had a top 10 OL, I would be much more optimistic. But, if we had a top 10 OL, we'd still have a franchise QB.

Just to clarify and hopefully not to derail the thread,  my comment about being surprised about Teddy was in reference to what we saw last year. Is the offensive line this year demonstrably worse? Although it’s another discussion, I think that’s at least debatable, and there are good reasons to think there will be improvement. 

The point I was making was effectively that, assuming the same level of play as last year from the line, Teddy would have been “surprisingly” more successful due to better decision-making capabilities, even when assuming as true Linville’s assertion that Kyle Allen and Teddy are similarly bad at throwing deep. 

[Mage]

Just now, GoobyPls said:

Theirs good and then theirs great like this article is stating, Thomas is good but a possession receiver can never be put in the great category. Look at the best receivers over the past decade AB, Julio, Calvin all where able to take the top off a defense, same goes with greats of all time Rice, Moss ext. Without that element you can’t be in that category

Marvin Harrison is one of the greatest wide receivers of all-time and he was a possession receiver.  Are you suggesting that he wasn't great either?