Greg Little (Now Off) PUP

[top dawg]

6 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Look at my post. Little underperformed almost every tackle taken into the 6th round. He also wasn’t as highly graded as you think. Someone with his size that’s highly ranked and a LT, doesn’t fall that far. I honestly think we could have gotten him at pick 77. He was passed over by everyone and we appeared to be the only team who really valued him high. Look at the guys who went in the 2nd after him. RT/G type guys to teams with LTs. Little had dropped out of most top 50 rankings after his terrible combine.

I will just ask you one question. Did you watch the OL position drills that were televised? I did and I know @ncfan and others did and we universally panned Little. I’m so happy that Burns dropped because @Verge said that if Burns was gone we would have taken Little at 16. And people think we didn’t expect him to start day 1. Back to my question. If you legitimately didn’t watch those position drills the higher grade was purely a pre-combine PFF based ranking and not the other 31 GMs rankings.

PFF? You have so many analysts ranking these things, and Little had a 2nd round grade on most of the big boards that I saw, and some scouting reports had him going day one (though that kind of piped down after the hype).

Looking at O-line drills isn't my thing, but I'd say that in general, these guys seem to be hit or miss--boom or bust! Little hardly has a good enough sample size to call him a bust at this point, so I think that definitively grading him or any other O-lineman (much less, OT) with so little games under his belt is relatively disingenuous at best and pure lunacy at worst!

Injuries legitimately derail careers before a player can develop. He might be headed down that track, and I think it's unfortunate for all parties involved (but mostly for him).

[RumHam]

On 7/31/2020 at 11:22 AM, Moo Daeng said:

I doubt he'd play much regardless. 

well until okung goes down in 2nd quarter for the season

[stbugs]

1 hour ago, top dawg said:

PFF? You have so many analysts ranking these things, and Little had a 2nd round grade on most of the big boards that I saw, and some scouting reports had him going day one (though that kind of piped down after the hype).

Looking at O-line drills isn't my thing, but I'd say that in general, these guys seem to be hit or miss--boom or bust! Little hardly has a good enough sample size to call him a bust at this point, so I think that definitively grading him or any other O-lineman (much less, OT) with so little games under his belt is relatively disingenuous at best and pure lunacy at worst!

Injuries legitimately derail careers before a player can develop. He might be headed down that track, and I think it's unfortunate for all parties involved (but mostly for him).

PFF was the service that had Little the highest and it was likely the reason why we did as well. I don’t remember the exact quote but we had some discussions on how Hurney and crew was big on analytics that draft. I could see Little being way higher on our board if you only use that. See this article on Grier, who was also someone we had way higher than most:

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-the-advanced-numbers-suggest-will-grier-may-be-the-steal-of-the-2019-nfl-draft

That article and Little’s PFF rating make me believe we used their ratings way too much. I believe Hurney said we had Grier ranked over Murray (only happened on PFF). Little dropped like a rock post combine. He absolutely was a first rounder just based on college work pre-combine. Seeing him right next to other top OL is when he fell. There’s no doubt in my mind that like with Grier, we were bidding against ourselves. I think we could have sat until 47 with no issue and maybe even waited until 77. He dropped off of many top 50s. Grier likely was a 5th rounder or later.

Also, you say it’s disingenuous to call him a bust at this point and assert that we are being lunatics, but you didn’t watch him at the combine doing apples to apples drills? Sorry, but that’s why I asked. There were others in here that panned him pre-draft and it was because he looked awful compared to guys like Risner, Taylor, Jenkins and McCoy all of whom went right around Little. Difference is that they looked great at the Senior Bowl and/or combine with solid competition. Since you didn’t watch, I’ll just say that those guys and Little ended up exactly like what we felt we saw in all of them.

Anyway, Little’s ours but my opinions on him are from before the draft and legitimately being worried that Verge’s statement that we loved him was correct. He was right.

[panthers55]

On 7/31/2020 at 12:36 PM, mrcompletely11 said:

Overreaction?  The news is what it is

So Little is off PUP and eligible to practice.  As I said, it wasnt a big deal and certainly not worth your overreaction as I correctly pointed out. The news was the news but your evaluation appears premature as I said. 

[Toomers]

     Is it no big deal that the NEW staff came in and decided to dedicate 22.6M of 2020 cap space to making sure the LT of the future doesn’t play LT at all. How does that figure in to the equation. 
 

   

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, Toomers said:

     Is it no big deal that the NEW staff came in and decided to dedicate 22.6M of 2020 cap space to making sure the LT of the future doesn’t play LT at all. How does that figure in to the equation. 
 

   

That's assuming they see Little as the LT of the future. They may not.

[Toomers]

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That's assuming they see Little as the LT of the future. They may not.

After a move like that, it would be more disturbing if they did. Probably didn’t take long after watching Little give up 14 pressures in ONE game. Even Matt Kalil laughed at that. 

[Jeremy Igo]

Dennis Daley is more likely to be our LT of the future. Kid is a Baller.

[Waldo]

17 minutes ago, Jeremy Igo said:

Dennis Daley is more likely to be our LT of the future. Kid is a Baller.

Really? Seemed like a good OG. Kinda looked limited at LT, which was an upgrade last year.

[panthers55]

On 8/1/2020 at 11:40 AM, Waldo said:

Little's issue is he was outplayed by a 6th round pick playing out of position. Even outside of injury that is a very bad sign.

Two concussions and now lingering ankle injury added to that is making this a pick that is going to take a lot of time to be ready. That's terrible for a high pick that we traded up for. 

I hope one of the long shot OG FA signings turns out to not be terrible and Daley maybe steps up into the other spot. This unit is not giving me good vibes going into this season. 

Little rarely saw the field and didn't play with the same teammates in consecutive weeks. Daley didn't play well but at least he got more practice and work than Little. Will Little be the guy this year? Who knows but saying a rookie is a bust or terrible because they aren't plug and play is ridiculous. Most rookies don't start on the line unless your team is awful. And if they do, it might mean they were a great choice or it could be simply the best guy at the position which might not be a good thing if none are good 

[Waldo]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

Little rarely saw the field and didn't play with the same teammates in consecutive weeks. Daley didn't play well but at least he got more practice and work than Little. Will Little be the guy this year? Who knows but saying a rookie is a bust or terrible because they aren't plug and play is ridiculous. Most rookies don't start on the line unless your team is awful. And if they do, it might mean they were a great choice or it could be simply the best guy at the position which might not be a good thing if none are good 

I never said he was a bust, I did say it was bad signs concerning him. And Daley looked like a OG playing out of position but he still looked better than Little at LT. That is concerning. Little only being able to play in 4 games and showing up on the PUP to start year 2 is concerning.Twist it how you want but thats what I saw. So far he hasn't shown any value of a 2nd round pick that we traded up for, that is also concerning. The fact we traded a starting OG to put an aging starter in front of last years 2nd round pick is also concerning. To summarize, I said he wasn't very good and you think I am labeling him a bust...something that takes more time where him just sucking is a coment on his current standing which takes no extra time whatsoever.

[stbugs]

2 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Little rarely saw the field and didn't play with the same teammates in consecutive weeks. Daley didn't play well but at least he got more practice and work than Little. Will Little be the guy this year? Who knows but saying a rookie is a bust or terrible because they aren't plug and play is ridiculous. Most rookies don't start on the line unless your team is awful. And if they do, it might mean they were a great choice or it could be simply the best guy at the position which might not be a good thing if none are good 

Houston had two OL rookies start 14 and 8 games. Buffalo had one start 16 games. Rams had a rookie start 7 games and another start 10 games. Minnesota had a rookie start 16 games. GB had a rookie start 14 games. NO had a rookie start 16 games. Tennessee had a rookie start 12. All 7 teams were above .500 and 6 were playoff teams. All rookies listed above either started the whole year or finished the year as starters. All will be starters this year unlike Little who’s only a starter if an injury occurs.

Also, 8 of the 9 were among the first 20 picks and in the first 3 rounds. There was 1 5th rounder. 13 of the top 20 OL started half a year or more. The other 7 included the top two OL picks out almost all year due to injuries. Only Andre Dillard and Greg Little in the top 15 OL picks appear to not be starters in year 2. Little was the 8th OL and the next 6 OL taken after Little started 14 to 16 games.

Rookies not starting right away is a fallacy that we try to hide behind when defending day 2 picks that don’t play well. Not saying rookies don’t develop but the 6 guys taken after Little were discussed as great picks and they panned out. That’s 95% of our disappointment. We liked other guys. I wanted McCoy at C and Evans at 77. We’d have McCoy, Evans and Moton as our right side, potentially for years if you resign Moton. That’s my disappointment.

[Mister]

Great news

[Peon Awesome]

6 hours ago, stbugs said:

Houston had two OL rookies start 14 and 8 games. Buffalo had one start 16 games. Rams had a rookie start 7 games and another start 10 games. Minnesota had a rookie start 16 games. GB had a rookie start 14 games. NO had a rookie start 16 games. Tennessee had a rookie start 12. All 7 teams were above .500 and 6 were playoff teams. All rookies listed above either started the whole year or finished the year as starters. All will be starters this year unlike Little who’s only a starter if an injury occurs.

Also, 8 of the 9 were among the first 20 picks and in the first 3 rounds. There was 1 5th rounder. 13 of the top 20 OL started half a year or more. The other 7 included the top two OL picks out almost all year due to injuries. Only Andre Dillard and Greg Little in the top 15 OL picks appear to not be starters in year 2. Little was the 8th OL and the next 6 OL taken after Little started 14 to 16 games.

Rookies not starting right away is a fallacy that we try to hide behind when defending day 2 picks that don’t play well. Not saying rookies don’t develop but the 6 guys taken after Little were discussed as great picks and they panned out. That’s 95% of our disappointment. We liked other guys. I wanted McCoy at C and Evans at 77. We’d have McCoy, Evans and Moton as our right side, potentially for years if you resign Moton. That’s my disappointment.

I know you were responding to someone who said rookies rarely start on the line so your point is true but of all the players you are referring to, only 3 were tackles and 0 were left tackles. Interior linemen do tend to translate more easily from college to the pros. And left tackle in particular is notoriously difficult for rookies. I get that Little hasn't done anything to garner our awe but he basically did what we'd expect out of a rookie LT. Let's hope he takes a leap forward while acknowledging he very well might fail.