Good thing we have Hurney right?

[t96]

On 7/26/2020 at 12:00 AM, onmyown said:

 

(sure we’ll throw CMC in there even though that’s outside the years analyzed). 

McCaffrey was a DG pick

[onmyown]

1 hour ago, t96 said:

McCaffrey was a DG pick

Yes, this is correct...DG was fired a few months after. There no doubt in my mind Hurney would have made the same pick. But yes DG made that call.  Right before Hurney was made interim GM...for the next several years.

[onmyown]

1 hour ago, NAS said:

I think Hurney's fault is almost always with the second contract.  I still can't believe he decided keeping both Stewart and Williams at high salary was a good idea. And le'ts not forget paying a declining and injured Jake Delhomme.  

If we can get him to stick with scouting and drafting colleg eplayers and have someone else negotiate contracts and manage the cap, we may have a winning formula.  

Not only these issues but also depth. Finding decent bargains and reliable stop gap players to fill out there roster. Hurney never seemed to draft for the future outside of LB and RB. Course neither did DG but DG was an excellent at bringing in FA to fill the gaps.  
 

So essentially Hurney is great and a very small part of his overall job.

[Basbear]

7 hours ago, NAS said:

I think Hurney's fault is almost always with the second contract.  I still can't believe he decided keeping both Stewart and Williams at high salary was a good idea. And le'ts not forget paying a declining and injured Jake Delhomme.  

If we can get him to stick with scouting and drafting colleg eplayers and have someone else negotiate contracts and manage the cap, we may have a winning formula.  

Naming Marty last true bargain contract(beginning and end) ......... I honestly could not think of a recent one, best I thought of was Jakes first contract. Again Dave killed marty here. Here was a good example- Peppers was signed by Dave for 3.5 million. Next year Marty signed him for 5 million, terrible. 

[MasterAwesome]

9 hours ago, Basbear said:

Naming Marty last true bargain contract(beginning and end) ......... I honestly could not think of a recent one, best I thought of was Jakes first contract. Again Dave killed marty here. Here was a good example- Peppers was signed by Dave for 3.5 million. Next year Marty signed him for 5 million, terrible. 

Yeah and like how Dave signed Christian McCaffrey to a 4-year $17 million contract and then Hurney signs him for a 4-year $64 million contract smh!! 

[Waldo]

5 hours ago, MasterAwesome said:

Yeah and like how Dave signed Christian McCaffrey to a 4-year $17 million contract and then Hurney signs him for a 4-year $64 million contract smh!! 

CMC wasn't a bargain contract, he is the highest average paid RB in the leaguenow https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/running-back/. Dave signed Cam and Luke to their second contracts that were team friendly. Hurney has signed the guys that were so bad last year in the run game that Luke wanted to retire after playing behind them. Hurney did thr Reed, Shaq and CMC contracts batting 33% on the players but all were overpaid. Oh, and all of his FA contracts since coming back have turned to terrible. All while the team slips into depth issues and a downward spiral of losing. Bravo to being aweful at everything but picking in the first round.

BB picks like crap in the first and has more rings than the Panthers do SB apperiences.

Rhule is going to have to be a heavy hitter to make up for Hurney's detractors.

[heel31ok]

On 7/25/2020 at 11:06 PM, NAS said:

Jets had responsibility in there too...

[MasterAwesome]

1 hour ago, Waldo said:

CMC wasn't a bargain contract, he is the highest average paid RB in the leaguenow https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/running-back/. Dave signed Cam and Luke to their second contracts that were team friendly. Hurney has signed the guys that were so bad last year in the run game that Luke wanted to retire after playing behind them. Hurney did thr Reed, Shaq and CMC contracts batting 33% on the players but all were overpaid. Oh, and all of his FA contracts since coming back have turned to terrible. All while the team slips into depth issues and a downward spiral of losing. Bravo to being aweful at everything but picking in the first round.

BB picks like crap in the first and has more rings than the Panthers do SB apperiences.

Rhule is going to have to be a heavy hitter to make up for Hurney's detractors.

I can only give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you quoted the wrong post...unless you really just dove into that whole rant cause I was teasing someone who thinks you can just pay players the same contract year after year in a vacuum.

If it really is the latter, then I apologize...I won’t dare mention Lord Dave’s name again. I shall run off and recite my three Hail Marys now.

[Peon Awesome]

1 hour ago, Waldo said:

CMC wasn't a bargain contract, he is the highest average paid RB in the leaguenow https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/running-back/. Dave signed Cam and Luke to their second contracts that were team friendly. Hurney has signed the guys that were so bad last year in the run game that Luke wanted to retire after playing behind them. Hurney did thr Reed, Shaq and CMC contracts batting 33% on the players but all were overpaid. Oh, and all of his FA contracts since coming back have turned to terrible. All while the team slips into depth issues and a downward spiral of losing. Bravo to being aweful at everything but picking in the first round.

BB picks like crap in the first and has more rings than the Panthers do SB apperiences.

Rhule is going to have to be a heavy hitter to make up for Hurney's detractors.

Not sure you picked up on the obvious sarcasm in that post. Point being that second contacts almost always go for more, if for no other reason than rising cap and contract values. The difference between the two Peppers contracts that poster referred to is menial. As far as the contracts you referred to, at the time, Cam and Luke's contracts were at or near the top of their position values when they signed them. Contract values tend to go up quickly so by the time the contract is ending, it looks like a bargain if the player remains in their prime. Hurney's contracts are likely to look the same in 3 or 4 years assuming we come out of this pandemic without completely destroying the cap. We cut Reid in our youth movement/culture change but we were even only able to do that after 1 year because the contract was reasonably structured. And with safeties now making $14 million per year (and once Jamal Adams signs, even more) Reid's contract was not egregious at the time it was signed, we just happened into a regime change. 

As far as zero decent free agency signings, what about the following?

Bruce Irvin - $4 million for 8.5 sacks in 13 games

Tre Boston - $2 million in 2019 (even his 3 year $18 million, already average for a starting safety, will look super cheap in 2 years)

Eric Reid - vet minimum in 2018

Greg Van Roten - 2 years, $1.6 million

Ross Cockrell - 2 years, $6.6 million

The thing about Hurney's second stint is he hasn't hamstrung us with bloated contracts we can't get out of in 1-2 years with minimal hit,  unless you count CMC, who should be the franchise star for the next several years. Even if you don't believe in Shaq, who hasn't hit his prime yet, we can technically cut him after this year and have less dead cap than what we're paying Matt Kalil this year according to Spotrac, believe it or not.

 

[Ship]

Yes, I’d rather have Hurney than the Jets and Browns GMs over the last decade. But sure, let’s make up a fake GM who would do better than Hurney at every possible thing and say that would actually be better????

[Waldo]

1 hour ago, Peon Awesome said:

Not sure you picked up on the obvious sarcasm in that post. Point being that second contacts almost always go for more, if for no other reason than rising cap and contract values. The difference between the two Peppers contracts that poster referred to is menial. As far as the contracts you referred to, at the time, Cam and Luke's contracts were at or near the top of their position values when they signed them. Contract values tend to go up quickly so by the time the contract is ending, it looks like a bargain if the player remains in their prime. Hurney's contracts are likely to look the same in 3 or 4 years assuming we come out of this pandemic without completely destroying the cap. We cut Reid in our youth movement/culture change but we were even only able to do that after 1 year because the contract was reasonably structured. And with safeties now making $14 million per year (and once Jamal Adams signs, even more) Reid's contract was not egregious at the time it was signed, we just happened into a regime change. 

As far as zero decent free agency signings, what about the following?

Bruce Irvin - $4 million for 8.5 sacks in 13 games

Tre Boston - $2 million in 2019 (even his 3 year $18 million, already average for a starting safety, will look super cheap in 2 years)

Eric Reid - vet minimum in 2018

Greg Van Roten - 2 years, $1.6 million

Ross Cockrell - 2 years, $6.6 million

The thing about Hurney's second stint is he hasn't hamstrung us with bloated contracts we can't get out of in 1-2 years with minimal hit,  unless you count CMC, who should be the franchise star for the next several years. Even if you don't believe in Shaq, who hasn't hit his prime yet, we can technically cut him after this year and have less dead cap than what we're paying Matt Kalil this year according to Spotrac, believe it or not.

 

I replied to the wrong person. My bad. 

You consider those good free agents or just better than nothing free agents? While ignoring the ones like Paradis and Poe or even Reed and Boston with bad multiyear deals? I completely understand one year rentals and filling out the roster with non studs but there is no need to pretend these guys are good. Good enough sure. But that's not good it's just as good as it gets. The other part of roster building isn't just who you get but how they fit together. Ron wasn't the only one that failed there miserably the last 2 years, last year being so bad they both should have be fired. 

Hurney has been hamstrung since being here. He was handed a winning team headed into training camp then he lost JR, the team being up for sale with a cheerleader running it and then Tepper coming in on training wheels with Rhule this year being the new direction. He literally couldn't do too much damage and for that I have been thankful. KK's extension was a disaster to date and showing that Hurney hasn't learned by back-loading an unearned giant extension. Olsen shouldn't either and we were saved Thomas getting one from the uproar of Olsen's deal. Shaq hasn't lived up to his yet but I at least understand the hope on that one, in his sixth year at that. 

Kalil is the hill Dave died on, we can talk about Dave's faults and mistakes plenty but he still was apart of as many winning seasons in less than half the time than Hurney. Still, Dave handed a winning team to Hurney and all he has done is lose and get worse. No it wasn't just him, but it's what he has done consistently. 11-5 with a team someone else built to 7-9 and 5-11 with a depleted roster. The entire 2.0 thing is a joke based in blind optimism and desperation. I desperately hope that Rhule can offset Hurney, that's where my hope is going. Hurney has burnt that bridge twice. There just isn't any pretend left at this point. 

[bababoey]

4 minutes ago, Waldo said:

I replied to the wrong person. My bad. 

You consider those good free agents or just better than nothing free agents? While ignoring the ones like Paradis and Poe or even Reed and Boston with bad multiyear deals? I completely understand one year rentals and filling out the roster with non studs but there is no need to pretend these guys are good. Good enough sure. But that's not good it's just as good as it gets. The other part of roster building isn't just who you get but how they fit together. Ron wasn't the only one that failed there miserably the last 2 years, last year being so bad they both should have be fired. 

Hurney has been hamstrung since being here. He was handed a winning team headed into training camp then he lost JR, the team being up for sale with a cheerleader running it and then Tepper coming in on training wheels with Rhule this year being the new direction. He literally couldn't do too much damage and for that I have been thankful. KK's extension was a disaster to date and showing that Hurney hasn't learned by back-loading an unearned giant extension. Olsen shouldn't either and we were saved by Thomas getting one from the uproar of Olsen's deal. Shaq hasn't lived up to his yet but I at least understand the hope on that one, in his sixth year at that. 

Kalil is the hill Dave died on, we can talk about Dave's faults and mistakes plenty but he still was apart of as many winning seasons in less than half the time than Hurney. Still, Dave handed a winning team to Hurney and all he has done is lose and get worse. No it wasn't just him, but it's what he has done consistently. 11-5 with a team someone else built to 7-9 and 5-11 with a depleted roster. The entire 2.0 thing is a joke based in blind optimism and desperation. I desperately hope that Rhule can offset Hurney, that's where my hope is going. Hurney has burnt that bridge twice. There just isn't any pretend left at this point. 

If you think DG handed Hurney a winning team and he just squandered it, that's fair.  It's not really accurate but it's fair.  But then again Hurney handed DG a very good young team and DG was able to improve it.  DG gave Hurney a good old team, with very little cheap talent.  While DG was here the Panthers had fewer draft picks than any team in the NFL.  Some of the picks were very good (Short, Star, CMC, Klein, Turner)  but not all of them and so Hurney got handed a good team that was old without a lot of young talent.  Then injuries.  Lots of injuries.  Both starting tackles for the year in the first game of 2016, Cam has been hurt since in end of 2016.  DG never had to deal with that.  How good would this team have been with a healthy Cam in 2017 or 18 or 19.  Hurney should haved signed a  better backup but DG had Anderson here as the backup every year he was the GM so you could say the same thing of DG.  With as old as this team was what happened under Hurney was going to happen under DG.

[Waldo]

10 minutes ago, bababoey said:

If you think DG handed Hurney a winning team and he just squandered it, that's fair.  It's not really accurate but it's fair.  But then again Hurney handed DG a very good young team and DG was able to improve it.  DG gave Hurney a good old team, with very little cheap talent.  While DG was here the Panthers had fewer draft picks than any team in the NFL.  Some of the picks were very good (Short, Star, CMC, Klein, Turner)  but not all of them and so Hurney got handed a good team that was old without a lot of young talent.  Then injuries.  Lots of injuries.  Both starting tackles for the year in the first game of 2016, Cam has been hurt since in end of 2016.  DG never had to deal with that.  How good would this team have been with a healthy Cam in 2017 or 18 or 19.  Hurney should haved signed a  better backup but DG had Anderson here as the backup every year he was the GM so you could say the same thing of DG.  With as old as this team was what happened under Hurney was going to happen under DG.

Dave was handed Cam and Luke and a team drowning in bad contracts, so much so that we had to dump good players to field a team. Hurney was handed a winning team with one massivly bad contract. Those are not the same thing.

[Shotgun]

44 minutes ago, Waldo said:

I replied to the wrong person. My bad. 

You consider those good free agents or just better than nothing free agents? While ignoring the ones like Paradis and Poe or even Reed and Boston with bad multiyear deals? I completely understand one year rentals and filling out the roster with non studs but there is no need to pretend these guys are good. Good enough sure. But that's not good it's just as good as it gets. The other part of roster building isn't just who you get but how they fit together. Ron wasn't the only one that failed there miserably the last 2 years, last year being so bad they both should have be fired. 

Hurney has been hamstrung since being here. He was handed a winning team headed into training camp then he lost JR, the team being up for sale with a cheerleader running it and then Tepper coming in on training wheels with Rhule this year being the new direction. He literally couldn't do too much damage and for that I have been thankful. KK's extension was a disaster to date and showing that Hurney hasn't learned by back-loading an unearned giant extension. Olsen shouldn't either and we were saved Thomas getting one from the uproar of Olsen's deal. Shaq hasn't lived up to his yet but I at least understand the hope on that one, in his sixth year at that. 

Kalil is the hill Dave died on, we can talk about Dave's faults and mistakes plenty but he still was apart of as many winning seasons in less than half the time than Hurney. Still, Dave handed a winning team to Hurney and all he has done is lose and get worse. No it wasn't just him, but it's what he has done consistently. 11-5 with a team someone else built to 7-9 and 5-11 with a depleted roster. The entire 2.0 thing is a joke based in blind optimism and desperation. I desperately hope that Rhule can offset Hurney, that's where my hope is going. Hurney has burnt that bridge twice. There just isn't any pretend left at this point. 

Hurney 3.0 is gunna be awesome though!