Does anyone actually believe Tepper has a clue what he’s doing

[LinvilleGorge]

25 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I’m surprised a majority of the teams will fall into that 10% range of winning percentage. Makes me think overall the NFL is pretty evenly matched with only a few outliers...

Overall, there is certainly a lot of parity. The Cowboys at #1 at 57.3%, the Bucs are #32 at 38.5%. 21 teams are between 55% and 45%. My #29 figure above was incorrect. It should've actually been #26. I didn't expand the field enough.

[pantherclaw]

15 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Lol. Came back an hour later to edit that last sentence in, eh?

Thanks for the rent free space in your head. 

You're delusional.  

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

I will never understand rating a GM on his win/loss record.

Didn't we just fire a coach because he routinely used the players he had available...wrong?

[thefuzz]

21 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

I will never understand rating a GM on his win/loss record.

Didn't we just fire a coach because he routinely used the players he had available...wrong?

When you are talking about sports, what else is there to base someones job on in that position?

Looks?  ESPN draft grades?  High priced extensions?  Bad roster management?

QB's shouldn't be roasted on wins and losses, but coaches and GM's?  Hell yes.

We simply don't win when Hurney is in charge.

[thefuzz]

21 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

Thinking of CMC as just a RB would make the contract look bad. However we all know he is also one of our top WRs and a leader/captain. He barely trails Mike Thomas in receptions over his first 3 years and no one complains about the contract Thomas got. 
We just moved on from our franchise QB, had our best defender retire, moved on from Olsen (who signed a much cheaper contract) and now has our salary cap looking pretty good in the next few years. So yeah in year one of a rebuild with a coach who is known for rebuilding we don’t have much depth. We have young talent and a draft that most fans actually liked from top to bottom. 
The Shaq contract wasn’t that bad. Can you imagine losing him and Luke in the same year? It was basically between Shaq and Bradberry and Shaq was much cheaper. I’m interested to see how he will be used in our new defense before I make too much of a judgement.

I’m not saying Hurney is a great GM, just don’t think he is as bad as he was before. I would say he is average at best now, especially with Rhule controlling most of the draft. I haven’t seen him do anything too crazy that should get him fired. If Tepper has someone interested that would be an upgrade then I’m fine with moving on. I‘m just am not calling Tepper an idiot for not firing Hurney yet, that’s all.

OK.

The CMC deal I'm not crucifying him for, but the chances that deal turns up good, when almost all 2nd contracts for RB's ends badly is just too high not to talk about.  And nobody cares about the Thomas deal because we don't pull for the Saints...if I did, I probably wouldn't be too happy.

As to moving on from Cam, Olsen, and Luke retiring I'm not sure what your point is there?  Hurney signed Olsen to a deal he shouldn't have.  Restructured Luke which bit us in the ass.  Can't decide what to do with KK.  We waste comp picks and 3rd rounders like a dumb poo team.  Have you looked closely into the Gano debacle?

I could go on and on and on....we have (once again under MH) the worst team in the division, have zero offensive line, have a bad defensive line, a bad secondary, a bad QB situation, hardly a LB corps, but we got CMC and DJ!!!!

We have watched him (once again) assemble the one of the very worst teams in the NFL.  We have wasted current and future picks that could help us rebuild (once again under MH), as well as not managed our salary cap correctly.

Hey, but at least we are winning football games.

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

9 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

When you are talking about sports, what else is there to base someones job on in that position?

Looks?  ESPN draft grades?  High priced extensions?  Bad roster management?

QB's shouldn't be roasted on wins and losses, but coaches and GM's?  Hell yes.

We simply don't win when Hurney is in charge

Hurney is not in charge of getting wins.

That is the coach.

Hurney puts players on a team.  The coach uses them.  We just fired a coach known for not playing his better option, instead of going with vets.

We are holding Hurney accountable to a coach that we all claim intentionally didn't let the better person play.

If you want to argue Hurney should have ditched Rivera sooner?  Ok.  But pretending that the wins/losses are his fault, and that is the main criteria we should use to judge him..when we just spent years talking about having a head coach that would play veterans over better skilled younger players..sounds silly.  And I just can't take it seriously.

Yes, wins/losses are a part of it, but taking the win/loss record out of context and using it as the main/only criteria for judging a GM just sounds stupid.

[thefuzz]

2 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

Hurney is not in charge of getting wins.

That is the coach.

Hurney puts players on a team.  The coach uses them.  We just fired a coach known for not playing his better option, instead of going with vets.

We are holding Hurney accountable to a coach that we all claim intentionally didn't let the better person play.

If you want to argue Hurney should have ditched Rivera sooner?  Ok.  But pretending that the wins/losses are his fault, and that is the main criteria we should use to judge him..when we just spent years talking about having a head coach that would play veterans over better skilled younger players..sounds silly.  And I just can't take it seriously.

Yes, wins/losses are a part of it, but taking the win/loss record out of context and using it as the main/only criteria for judging a GM just sounds stupid.

Oh, it's not the only criteria, but it's the one that Hurney supporters cling to.  "You can't judge him by wins and losses only!!!!!!"

I'm not.  I'm judging the entire body of work.

I'll tell you what, you list the positive moves, that have turned out good for the team, since Hurney got back, and I'll list the bad moves.  Let's don't talk about wins and losses, just moves that have affected the team.

[mc52beast]

Tepper isn’t going to accept failure, it’s not an option. He’s going to eventually replace Hurney and will let his management staff run the team. 
 

I think within 2-3 years you will see a 180 from where JR had this team.

[thefuzz]

41 minutes ago, mc52beast said:

Tepper isn’t going to accept failure, it’s not an option. He’s going to eventually replace Hurney and will let his management staff run the team. 
 

I think within 2-3 years you will see a 180 from where JR had this team.

A quick look back through the timeline of the Panthers with Marty Hurney in control...then choosing not do make any changes, even while firing the coach is already telling us he will accept failure, no?

He has owned the team for 2 years already.

[ForJimmy]

18 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

A quick look back through the timeline of the Panthers with Marty Hurney in control...then choosing not do make any changes, even while firing the coach is already telling us he will accept failure, no?

He has owned the team for 2 years already.

2 whole years!! Relax for a minute. He said from the beginning it’s not going to happen overnight. Hurney is the GM, (while I think he hasn’t been terrible) how much power does he really have? The draft looked like Rhule and I’m sure most trades/contracts get approved by Tepper if he is such the micromanager people are claiming he is. The rumors were Tepper was looking at hiring another GM and giving Hurney a different position (over scouting maybe). Regardless we might not even have the season and he might as well take him time and find the right candidate if he does hire one. He just fired Rivera this last year because of mediocracy, if Rhule has the same issues I’m sure he will look up the chain of command at Hurney. My point is he might be gone sooner than later and if he is as bad as you all are saying he will be gone/exposed under a new coaching staff.

[top dawg]

15 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

He's 102-122 as a GM. He's awful.

As a franchise, we're 10 percentage points better without Hurney than with him. We've won 45% of our games with him. We've won 55% without him. Put in other terms, our overall winning percentage without Hurney would be good for #6 among all NFL franchises. Our winning percentage with him is good for 29th. He's awful.

Actually, he's 98-110 as GM, and if you look at it within the context of Cam being out the last couple of years, Hurney is right around .500. And this is including being thrown under the bus by a meddling Jerry Richardson who had him by the nads for a couple of seasons due to tanking the team, being more interested in making a point about withholding money from the players than winning football games. In any event, no one seems to have a win-loss record for GMs during the same period, much less all the contextual specifics, so it's kind of easy to call someone awful. A lot of this stuff is based on opinion. But, at the end of the day, I still say that it's a stretch to say that Tepper's management from the respective of being an owner isn't something to feel negative about. I don't see how anyone can say things aren't looking good when we've made so many changes recently without even a single game being played. The moves made could be a total failure, or they could be the best thing that ever happened! And, if Hurney or anyone becomes a problem, I'm confident that Tepper is at least going to make some changes (hopefully for the better). And, perhaps more importantly, I'm confident that the changes aren't going to be a knee-jerk reaction (which in my mind is a good thing).

 

[BlackCats2013]

I'm not sure if this is Tepper or not but try getting information on when we will be able to exercise or options as PSL owners. The email that we received a few weeks ago is the only info that we have received and it doesn't say when we can select an option. I called and had to leave a message which is fine because some people are working from home I get it. When they call back and have no information to provide seems crazy to me. You would think that the owner would know by now how they plan on handling the upcoming season. At least when refunds will be available or when I could make a decision to allocate my payments to next years tickets. Just curious as to what he could be waiting for...

[top dawg]

15 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

How long is he going to wait on Rhule? Right now we are set up to be tremendously unsuccessful for a while. Tepper himself has publicly preached patience with the process. Are you so sure that patience isn't extended towards Hurney?

We don't know much yet. I am very concerned about what we end up finding out through the process.

I mean, you at least have to give Rhule three years, right? I'm thinking five years unless he shows a Chip Kelly-esque type of incompetence, inflexibility, "un-adaptability" and hubris.

[thefuzz]

1 hour ago, ForJimmy said:

2 whole years!! Relax for a minute. He said from the beginning it’s not going to happen overnight. Hurney is the GM, (while I think he hasn’t been terrible) how much power does he really have? The draft looked like Rhule and I’m sure most trades/contracts get approved by Tepper if he is such the micromanager people are claiming he is. The rumors were Tepper was looking at hiring another GM and giving Hurney a different position (over scouting maybe). Regardless we might not even have the season and he might as well take him time and find the right candidate if he does hire one. He just fired Rivera this last year because of mediocracy, if Rhule has the same issues I’m sure he will look up the chain of command at Hurney. My point is he might be gone sooner than later and if he is as bad as you all are saying he will be gone/exposed under a new coaching staff.

I couldn't be more relaxed, but thank you for your help.

A minute though?  How long has Hurney been here?

Yea, I was patient with this team...no longer.  I may tune in on Sundays (if we have football), but it's certainly not going to be a priority.  The pure stupidness of this team has made me sour on football more than I could have ever imagined.