Does anyone actually believe Tepper has a clue what he’s doing

[pantherclaw]

I'm not worried about about Rhule.  

I know the history of college coaches. I've known football all my life. It is not a new concept to me. 

Some make it, some don't.   

A decent amount of research of Rhule shouldn't make anyone skeptical.   Quite the opposite in fact. 

As far as Hurney,  he can't hurt the team in his current compacity. His value to Tepper is obvious.  

I know how the majority feels about Hurney. 

Just because Tepper values Hurney more than the majority of the huddle, doesn't qualify a red flag either. 

[kungfoodude]

15 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

I'm not worried about about Rhule.  

I know the history of college coaches. I've known football all my life. It is not a new concept to me. 

Some make it, some don't.   

A decent amount of research of Rhule shouldn't make anyone skeptical.   Quite the opposite in fact. 

As far as Hurney,  he can't hurt the team in his current compacity. His value to Tepper is obvious.  

I know how the majority feels about Hurney. 

Just because Tepper values Hurney more than the majority of the huddle, doesn't qualify a red flag either. 

To be determined on both counts. Just because you nor Tepper view them as red flags don't make them solid bets. 

We will see in about five years. I don't think I will be wrong but I will be perfectly happy being proven so. I enjoyed Cam tremendously after saying drafting him would be "the biggest mistake in franchise history." 

[rippadonn]

5 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

He did things that don't have a good track record of success in the NFL.

1. Kept Marty Hurney.

2. Hired a college coach with almost no NFL experience.

Feel free to look up the past 30 years of examples of both those actions. 

Steve Spurrier had NFL experience and still couldn't pull it off? Why? Totally see that point.

Plus there have been and still are super rich guys who own NFL teams who are smart and analytical that have yet to sniff the success a relatively poor owner like JR did.

You can't bottle success in the NFL. There are those that sniff balls because of paychecks. Pay them no mind.

[pantherclaw]

37 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

To be determined on both counts. Just because you nor Tepper view them as red flags don't make them solid bets. 

We will see in about five years. I don't think I will be wrong but I will be perfectly happy being proven so. I enjoyed Cam tremendously after saying drafting him would be "the biggest mistake in franchise history." 

Tepper is a highly successful man. He is so because of his intelligence, patience,  and willingness to learn what he doesn't know. 

I'll take his worst decisions, over your best. 

 

Coaches of all kinds of coaching history fail. More fail than make it as head coaches. This includes the ones with tons of NFL experience. 

I'm much happier with Rhule than any NFL proven coach we could have gotten. 

 

You say it's taking a risk. 

 

Rhule's track record speaks for itself. You're wearing blinders,  to believe that he'll most likely fail. 

 

 

 

 

[ForJimmy]

5 hours ago, Mr Mojo Risin said:

Fair points EVERYONE is entitled to an opinion and just because someones opinion differs from yours about the current state of the team doesn't make them any less of a fan. (This was the point I was trying to make in that post)

Onto the first point of your argument. The thing with Cam is you really have to look at his situation and the state of the NFL at the time of his release. It's not like he was let go in the initial FA releasings and was on the FA market as soon as FA started. He was let go well into the 2nd even 3rd wave of FA and most teams do not wait that long to address the most important position in football unless they hold a high draft pick and plan on selecting one. Teddy Bridgewater started only 3 games more than Cam last year and I'd say his injury was 100% more gruesome/worse/career threatening than ANY of the injuries Cam has suffered to this point in his career and we signed him to a $63 million contract. Sure, you could argue his injury was years ago but is 5 games really that much to say Teddy's knee is completely healed and worth mortgaging $63 million on? Wouldn't it have made more sense to see what our former MVP could do? That kind of logic just destroys that narrative of "We aren't sure if Cam will be able to recover from his injuries" when they hand $63 million to a guy like Ted, someone who has never been able to pass for more than 14 Tds in a single season...

Hurney also should have been let go or at least moved into a different role. The only reason the "Fire Hurney" crowd stopped their witch hunt was because he really couldn't have screwed up this draft like he screwed other drafts in years passed. Literally every pick was a defensive player. There should have at least been SOME interviews and he should have possibly taken on more of a "consultant" role than full time active GM that just doesn't make sense to me.

Rhule is probably not as big of a deal because he was such a hot commodity. However, it feels VERY much like Chip Kelly 2.0 and also there really hasn't been very many successful college head coaches that have been able to make that transition. He also has very little NFL experience behind him in the coordinator roles.

At the very least it will be interesting to see what happens. I just can't buy-in to the fact that Tepper has any sense that he knows what he's doing or went into this with an actual plan, rather just throwing sh*t at the wall to see if it sticks. He seems to have the personality of the latter IMO.

Good points. There is a lot to unpack here...

I’m not sure Chip was ever as loved by his players as Rhule is. So many players in the league that he coached came to the Panthers and mentioned him as the main reason (granted they aren’t super stars, but Robby Anderson is good and turned down more money to play for Rhule). 

Teddy has been healthy for the past two years and looked pretty solid the 5 games he played last year under a similar offense Joe Brady wants to run. Plus Joe Brady has already coached Teddy before and wanted him as our QB. Cam got hurt the past three years now. His throwing shoulder got injured and he couldn’t come back from it. Two years later he injured his foot and still can’t throw the ball because of it. We still don’t know if his shoulder can make it over half a season. Teddy’s shoulder is 100% and his leg injury (as bad as it was) was years ago. The bottom line is if any of the other 31 teams thought Cam was going to make it all season he would have got a contract earlier for more money. He was a former MVP at the most important position in all sports. Teddy’s contract isn’t all guaranteed and can be voided after year 2 with minimal salary cap damage.

I can see where you are coming from, but there has been logic behind most of these moves.

[kungfoodude]

22 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

Tepper is a highly successful man. He is so because of his intelligence, patience,  and willingness to learn what he doesn't know. 

I'll take his worst decisions, over your best. 

 

Coaches of all kinds of coaching history fail. More fail than make it as head coaches. This includes the ones with tons of NFL experience. 

I'm much happier with Rhule than any NFL proven coach we could have gotten. 

 

You say it's taking a risk. 

 

Rhule's track record speaks for itself. You're wearing blinders,  to believe that he'll most likely fail. 

 

 

 

 

I'll make a safe bet, you won't speak up if you are proven wrong in the future. You'll still have your nose planted up Tepper's ass and making excuses why someone else is to blame.

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Good points. There is a lot to unpack here...

I’m not sure Chip was ever as loved by his players as Rhule is. So many players in the league that he coached came to the Panthers and mentioned him as the main reason (granted they aren’t super stars, but Robby Anderson is good and turned down more money to play for Rhule). 

Teddy has been healthy for the past two years and looked pretty solid the 5 games he played last year under a similar offense Joe Brady wants to run. Plus Joe Brady has already coached Teddy before and wanted him as our QB. Cam got hurt the past three years now. His throwing shoulder got injured and he couldn’t come back from it. Two years later he injured his foot and still can’t throw the ball because of it. We still don’t know if his shoulder can make it over half a season. Teddy’s shoulder is 100% and his leg injury (as bad as it was) was years ago. The bottom line is if any of the other 31 teams thought Cam was going to make it all season he would have got a contract earlier for more money. He was a former MVP at the most important position in all sports. Teddy’s contract isn’t all guaranteed and can be voided after year 2 with minimal salary cap damage.

I can see where you are coming from, but there has been logic behind most of these moves.

Player's loved Ron Rivera though and he was a failure. Players don't generally love Belichick but he does well. They love Pete Carroll and he has done well. I don't think you can draw a direct line between loving your head coach and ultimate NFL success.

You are right about one thing, outside Shaq and CMC, we have at least hedged basically every bet we have made so far. That is where I will actually give the current regime credit.

[Peon Awesome]

Any team that only had their franchise qb healthy for 8 games in 2 seasons is not going to have their best foot forward. You have to acknowledge Tepper walked into an unfavorable situation. Is Tepper a great owner? Is he terrible? Jury is out. I suspect he's alright. You can say a few things: he's willing to take risks, he's refreshingly more open-minded on social issues after having Jerry Richardson at the helm, he's more than willing to open the purse strings if he thinks it will help the team, has invested quite a bit of his money into the Panthers and Charlotte, and he isn't afraid to cut people loose if they don't deliver. I'm not so keen to harp on Marty Hurney; Tepper has already brought in people to reduce his role, particularly if you consider Rhule will have a bigger voice in personnel too. And I think it makes sense to give Rhule/Hurney a year to see if the problems were more Rivera than Hurney. But with the way he got rid of Rivera and Cam, let's not pretend Hurney is suddenly untouchable.

As far as the Rhule hire, who cares if he gave him a bunch of money? It's his money. He can still cut him whenever if he underperforms. And look at the rest of the new coaching hires. Mike McCarthy, Rivera, Joe Judge and Kevin Stefanski. You're telling me Rhule doesn't excite you more than anyone else on that list? Maybe he won't pan out, maybe he will. I'm at least willing to see how it unfolds. 

 

[pantherclaw]

8 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I'll make a safe bet, you won't speak up if you are proven wrong in the future. You'll still have your nose planted up Tepper's ass and making excuses why someone else is to blame.

Just like you don't  know Tepper. 

You obviously don't know me. 

You should stop trying. 

[panthers55]

Way too early to judge Tepper's football acumen given this is his first shot at building his team with his people. As for his non-football moves, most of his decisions have been good for the team and the community. He is not afraid to upset the good old boy NFL Network and be an innovator. Many folks upset with Tepper seem to  have an agenda like the Hurney haters or Cam nuthuggers. 

[CRA]

I fully believe Tepper will make lots and lots and lots of money in the end.   I do not doubt him. 

Will he win lots of football games? Super Bowls? I have no more or no less confidence in him than the last ownership.   He is different.  That’s about all I know. 

[DeAngelo Beason]

He OWNS the team.  Not much you can do about it.  If you already hate him, I'd recommend jumping ship, cause he's probably going to be around for a while...

[thefuzz]

16 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

These red flags aren’t as bad as you are making them out to be. I hated releasing Cam, but apparently every other team thinks he is an injury risk as well and we weren’t about to try him for a 3rd year in a row at $20 million. The contract he signed doesn’t come close to what we would have paid him. Rivera needed to be let go, might as well do it right away and see what kind of staff was around him. The last thing we needed was him winning a few meaningless games making it more difficult to fire him. Retaining Hurney, I could see either way. This Hurney has been better at contracts and it looks like Rhule was overseeing a lot of the draft now, so you don’t have to worry about his 2nd/3rd round misses... Rhule was a hot candidate whose specialty was rebuilding, which seems like a good match to me. I see you no NFL experience point though...

This is one of my favorites around here....hell, I made a thread just asking exactly how "Hurney 2.0" has really improved....I got nothing.

But here's the best part...posters here will talk about Hurney being better this time, and not making the same mistakes....yet we just paid a RB 1 year too early into his contract, and, well, we paid a running back...top of the heap money at that.  So we got that going for us...not to mention an off ball LB, instead of our best defensive player at a much more valuable position.

Next up, and I want all of the "Hurney 2.0" folks out there to realize, we have once again found ourselves in the bottom of the garbage can that is known as the NFL.  Hurney had/has constructed one of the very worst football teams in the history of the Panthers.  Many here were arguing if this team, or the 2010 team had the least amount of talent on it.  Jesus.

So we are likely to pick in the top 5...again under Hurney.  Have no depth.  Have one of the worst rosters in the NFL.  And our QB's signed long term are Will Grier (one of your picks you mentioned that we don't have to worry about any longer) and Teddy Bridgewater.

I simply have seen zero improvement, but let's don't let wins and losses sway that notion.

[top dawg]

On 7/6/2020 at 7:57 PM, LinvilleGorge said:

Time will tell. So far, I'd say it doesn't look good but we'll just have to wait and see.

With a comment like this, I'd say that it's mostly Hurney hate...and/or you don't believe in the golden Rhule, and you're not really open-minded about the Cam-Bridgewater deal.

 

It's much too early to be wavering about our moves IMO. Let's give it three years. Then we'll have something more concrete to feel about.