Unpopular opinion. Just cancel all pro sports until a vaccine hits

[4Corners]

25 minutes ago, Peon Awesome said:

Unfortunately it's still not completely certain that immunity is long lasting for the coronavirus. Just like you can get the flu more than once due to genetic variations of the virus, you could end up getting infected with the coronavirus multiple times. There's probably some protection but scientists haven't been able to give us definitive answers to this point.

I also think at this point people aren't as upset about places opening and people getting back to life so much as being completely reckless with disregard for others as they do it. Masks are the most obvious thing. Other countries have been able to prevent the insane numbers we have in the US due to widespread use of masks. But there's a lot of people that are either too ignorant and/or selfish and refuse. Other examples are people with symptoms going to dinner parties, bars or public pools. Literally if everyone would wear a mask in public and stay home when symptomatic, we could probably open up the country way more quickly and more safely. Should be easy since it's asking for so little but its apparently too much for many people. It would help if our leadership would set a good example but sadly that's not the case.

This is a very reasonable, well thought out post. Certainly sounds like you know what your talking about. This country is fuged. I bet we don’t have sports for two years. 

[RASTAN66]

4 hours ago, Captroop said:

I like how acting like there's a fugging pandemic going on has somehow become a political dick measuring contest. We got goobers like this, yee-hawing alpha energy like we're not seeing the daily increase in cases spiking at levels we haven't seen since the beginning of April.

At this point, yeah, let these idiots gather in large numbers. Us basement wallowers will just have to live with our beta-ness while you macho men spread the disease and then complain, "we aren't getting to stage 2 fast enough."

Waah waah waah...

...wallow away.

[Glitchh]

Only fools and the terminally naive believe all the propaganda being dished out as facts.

[Carl Spackler]

2 hours ago, Peon Awesome said:

Sure. Actually I'm a dual board certified physician who gets regular COVID updates from the infectious disease chief and other leadership in our hospital's department of medicine. But you're probably right. They're all members of the deep state. Apologies for having the audacity to ask for your sources so that I may learn the other side. I'm sure your sources are probably too advanced for my wee sheep brain but I wouldn't have minded trying to review and critically appraise them for merit. Also since you didn't say which parts of Fauci's information you find to be false, it would be difficult to locate whatever sources you're alluding to. 

P.S. If you want to encourage people to see your point of view, engaging in dialogue and making constructive points is probably more effective than baseless namecalling. Just a friendly tip. Good luck.

Yeah but his sources are OAN, InfoWars, Russian bots on Twitter and Trump. Who could be more reliable, aside from literally everyone?

[raz]

my god, the stupid, it burns

[stirs]

For the doctors and statisticians in this thread, what do deaths from Covid 19 look like in the 18-30 year old male athlete category?

[raz]

[1of10Charnatives]

9 hours ago, Peon Awesome said:

Sure. Actually I'm a dual board certified physician who gets regular COVID updates from the infectious disease chief and other leadership in our hospital's department of medicine. But you're probably right. They're all members of the deep state. Apologies for having the audacity to ask for your sources so that I may learn the other side. I'm sure your sources are probably too advanced for my wee sheep brain but I wouldn't have minded trying to review and critically appraise them for merit. Also since you didn't say which parts of Fauci's information you find to be false, it would be difficult to locate whatever sources you're alluding to. 

P.S. If you want to encourage people to see your point of view, engaging in dialogue and making constructive points is probably more effective than baseless namecalling. Just a friendly tip. Good luck.

Peon is too modest to do it himself, so I'll do it for him:

 

*Mic drop*

[Panthera onca]

9 hours ago, Peon Awesome said:

Sure. Actually I'm a dual board certified physician who gets regular COVID updates from the infectious disease chief and other leadership in our hospital's department of medicine. But you're probably right. They're all members of the deep state. Apologies for having the audacity to ask for your sources so that I may learn the other side. I'm sure your sources are probably too advanced for my wee sheep brain but I wouldn't have minded trying to review and critically appraise them for merit. Also since you didn't say which parts of Fauci's information you find to be false, it would be difficult to locate whatever sources you're alluding to. 

P.S. If you want to encourage people to see your point of view, engaging in dialogue and making constructive points is probably more effective than baseless namecalling. Just a friendly tip. Good luck.

That makes you uniquely immune to any viewpoints opposite to what you are told by CDC and WHO. Doctors all over the country are railing about the lies we are being told. Do you see dozens of seriously ill Covid patients pouring into your hospital every day? Are they on ventilators? Why not let this thing run it’s course and be done? Why don’t we shut down the country every flu season? Corona is certainly no worse than any normal flu season. Do you really think the medical industry is incorruptible and beyond reproach? I guess I’ll go put on a submission muzzle and be a good little sheeple.

[1of10Charnatives]

2 minutes ago, Panthera onca said:

That makes you uniquely immune to any viewpoints opposite to what you are told by CDC and WHO. Doctors all over the country are railing about the lies we are being told. Do you see dozens of seriously ill Covid patients pouring into your hospital every day? Are they on ventilators? Why not let this thing run it’s course and be done? Why don’t we shut down the country every flu season? Corona is certainly no worse than any normal flu season. Do you really think the medical industry is incorruptible and beyond reproach? I guess I’ll go put on a submission muzzle and be a good little sheeple.

You completely missed the point of what he was saying and assigned things to him that he didn't say while distorting what he did. I also noticed you didn't answer his question about which specific parts of Fauci's information you find false. I'm someone who by no means inherently trusts government officials or the medical industry, but his point was about engaging in actual dialogue instead of simply casting aspersions.

He invited you to engage in actual dialogue and share differing views. You continue to engage in name calling and imply he is the one incapable of considering other viewpoints or additional information. His posts demonstrate intellectual integrity. So far yours lack it. Do you want an honest open discussion or do you just want to vent at people and things without backing up what you say with verifiable sources and intellectually honest arguments?

I think there is plenty of room in this discussion to consider multiple viewpoints, but so far your approach is not giving me any reason to take yours seriously.

[Panthera onca]

It is probably better suited for the TB. I don’t think I engaged in name calling, if so I apologize. MDs are typically very rigid thinkers when it comes to anyone questioning the mainstream narrative. You seem to have an open and agile mind. Has all of the hysteria around Covid-19 not given you pause to at least consider that all is not as it seems?

[1of10Charnatives]

1 minute ago, Panthera onca said:

It is probably better suited for the TB. I don’t think I engaged in name calling, if so I apologize. MDs are typically very rigid thinkers when it comes to anyone questioning the mainstream narrative. You seem to have an open and agile mind. Has all of the hysteria around Covid-19 not given you pause to at least consider that all is not as it seems?

Sheeple is a label and makes it easier to dismiss the viewpoints or behavior of others. I'm not gonna say I've never used it, but that's what I was referring to.

I'm very concerned about the hysteria. I'm in sales and one of the first things you learn is that people make decisions primarily on emotion not reason. I think that not enough of the public debate and discussion has engaged the topic of herd immunity probably precisely because it doesn't involve giving government license to take more control and impose more restrictions and because discussing it in a calm rational way and confronting hard truths doesn't suit the usual media agenda of sensationalism.

I think that if the goal of social distancing and other initial lockdown measures was to flatten the curve, it's reasonable to ask those in authority if their plan is simply to revert back to those same measures when easing them predictably results in more cases, or if they are willing to have an honest, painful discussion with the public about why other approaches might need to be considered. I think that you make a reasonable point about doctor's reluctance to think outside the box, but Peon is demonstrating a willingness to engage in honest discussion.  The unfortunate thing is that our culture has become so politicized and polarized that even things like how to approach a public health crisis have made it challenging to adopt a "we're all in this together so let's try not to divide up into camps" mentality.

I think a good starting point for discussion would be acknowledge that statistics seem indicate that the US approach to the pandemic has been one of the least successful worldwide, and instead of focusing on fixing blame, examining places that seem to have had greater success and whether we can learn from and apply things from those places to achieve greater success here. That's my two cents anyway.

[Icege]

The first page made me think this was the Tinderbox with all of the conservative dog whistles.

[Peon Awesome]

1 hour ago, Panthera onca said:

That makes you uniquely immune to any viewpoints opposite to what you are told by CDC and WHO. Doctors all over the country are railing about the lies we are being told. Do you see dozens of seriously ill Covid patients pouring into your hospital every day? Are they on ventilators? Why not let this thing run it’s course and be done? Why don’t we shut down the country every flu season? Corona is certainly no worse than any normal flu season. Do you really think the medical industry is incorruptible and beyond reproach? I guess I’ll go put on a submission muzzle and be a good little sheeple.

Well let me address the core of your question. You seem to be implying that the mainstream media suggests COVID is a universally lethal super virus that will kill anyone who gets the slightest whiff of it and thus we all should hide in our bunkers for the next 2 years. I don't pay much attention to the media so if that's the case, thats not true and they are wrong or if that's the impression they have given you to lead you to distrust them, that is also wrong. I have yet to hear anything even remotely that alarmist from Dr. Fauci. So you still haven't quoted anything he's said recently to suggest we shouldn't take his advice.

Second point, is COVID no different than the flu, which doesn't prompt us to take really any precautions every year? That is also a resounding NO. We get COVID updates 3 times a week from our hospital leadership. Our most recent update came on Friday, which said there were 17 patients in our medical ICU with COVID, the majority on the ventilator. In an average flu season, we have about 3 patients with the flu in the ICU on the ventilator at any one time and that's with the entire country open and almost no one taking any precautions. There are times when the entire medical ICU doesn't even have 17 patients TOTAL in a regular season. Now we have 17 just with COVID despite a lot of things still closed down and most people being careful. How many would we have with concerts and sporting events going on, bars statewide open, you know things that are true during a flu season?

A lot of the COVID patients in the ICU have very few if any medical problems. I can't give specifics or risk a firing due to HIPAA violations but trust me that not every person in the ICU is 80 years old. The average age seems to be more like 50 and there are more than a few in their 30s. Most of the healthier ones eventually come off the ventilator and go home, although not all. And even so, is a 3 week hospitalization with a couple weeks on a ventilator and the associated $400,000 hospital bill anything to sneeze at? We quote the 120,000 that died, but there's at least as many whose lives have been turned upside down with horrendous hospitalizations and lingering medical issues.

Meanwhile, are there people who get it with basically no symptoms? Yes! Like I said, it's not universally fatal. With the range of patients we're seeing, we can't tell with certainty who will get sick and who won't. We can say "You're more likely to get sick" but we don't know. There have been organ transplant recipients who are immunosuppressed that got COVID and had basically no symptoms and there's been multiple people in their 40s with no medical problems or very few (like well-controlled hypertension) who have died. So we have to recommend everyone try their best to be careful, not only for themselves, but for people they will undoubtedly run into who they could unknowingly spread it to if they're not taking any precautions.

What is my stance? We don't need to shut the whole country down but everyone needs to wear masks whenever they can in public, stay home if they have any symptoms and avoid unnecessary social packing until we have an effective vaccine. Need to socialize with friends? Invite over a select group for a dinner party on the outdoor patio, rather than going to a crowded bar and pounding shots on the bar counter. Hell I'm not even opposed to the proposals that suggest opening up a bar that is willing to heavily restrict capacity and focus primarily on outdoor seating. There are ways we can still live our lives and keep the economy running without saying that we need to force everyone to get the coronavirus and sacrifice hundreds of thousands if not a million or more. It starts with those measures, which lots of people don't want to take already even though it's the best chance we have.

So I'm sorry if the media made you lose its trust somewhere along the way. I don't let the media guide me. I let the best available medical literature as well as my own personal experience working in the hospital guide me. And it suggests while some are doing their part, there are still too many people not taking the bare minimum precautions for our country to prosper. God forbid people all assume this is just the seasonal flu because we'll look back and wonder why we let so many people die for no good reason when all we had to do was a couple simple things like wear a mask.