Richardson Statue Coming Down

[1of10Charnatives]

3 hours ago, Vagrant said:

i wasn't going to address this post because it's full of obviously fallacious thoughts but the concept that people are quoting it for relevance and acting like it's diminishing to my case got me. so there's that. let's break down a few of the things you discussed. 

1. "so going to war against the Nazis to bring an end to the holocaust was a needless, terrible event?" - HELL YES. that was a war created by a megalomaniac with only bad intentions. his agenda was dumb and he cost the world countless lives in horrific fashion. needless is the perfect word to describe the precipitating events that culminated in that military action. there is absolutely no need for me to be more careful with my wording or to be chided like you've made a salient point because that is precisely what was meant. your cognition failure here is recognizing where to pinpoint the origin of the problem instead of how to address the problem once it was already problematic. just the same as you may view the civil war as needed because there needed to be an end to slavery, if the institution had been thwarted in its infancy by right minded people there would have been no reason for all that bloodshed either. that makes it both.... *drumroll* needless and terrible. pretty much all global conflicts are the product of someone's rationality failing them or that entity being cajoled and encouraged where they should have been corrected and disposed by their people for inhuman concepts. that is why these events are national embarrassments. not even entirely because it ended in war, but because of the ethical failures that proceeded them are owned by not just the perpetrators themselves, but the citizens that thrust these people into power and those that were indifferent to the wrongdoing despite clear signs. so yes, right back at you with the lack of careful thinking. your line of thought is results oriented and made in evaluation after the biggest mistakes had already been made, necessitating conflict that need not have been. 

2. if you want to talk about semantics with wording "morally wrong though slavery MAY have been" should be right up there in the hall of fame. your intent with this phrasing was clearly not to leave it ambiguous that it "may" have been wrong, but rather utilizing a common turn of phrase as a transition into another thought. but if we're being pedantic as you were with my "needless and terrible" comment, there's two sides to that coin. i find that lack of care with one's words often goes hand in hand with lack of careful thinking. *jerking off emoji* 

3. as far as government overreach is concerned, if those battlefields were providing the appropriate lessons regarding historical perspective, they have already failed us as you delineated later in the same sentence. you quite literally countered your own point by illuminating how ineffectual these places have been in regards to being instructive for future generations. additionally, perhaps the bigger mistake was placating southern states with the idea of secession at the outset. you know why that little omission was made? because a ton of the framers of the constitution were also slave owners and fought for that omission vehemently. as far as pinpointing the actions that precipitated the events of the civil war, we can go back even further to the advent of the practice in this ideological departure from the tyrannical abuse from the power brokers in England.... but what did we go and do in response? commit an equally egregious crime against humanity. 

4. if you seek "whispers from the past," I have some fantastic news for you. those self-same voices you go to hear in many cases actually recorded their experience on parchment and some places later bound those thoughts into leather and had them replicated by way of the printing press so that you might not have to rely upon something as vague as walking through a battlefield to hear the lessons they have to offer you across time. i can only imagine the heaps of time you will save not having to go to a battlefield for perspective on that anymore. there's no need to thank me and the better news is that there's probably a building in your town that has all of them on file already for your consumption. it's preposterously convenient. now what can we do with that funding and land that's a better utilization of resources? 

5. again, we need not memorialize the death of racists by standing upon the same land they once stood. we do that every day. the place in which they died for those poorly held beliefs is no more sacred than the hospital that millions of other racists died in for unrelated reasons. there is no need for preservation of the physical space in which they occupied in order to learn from their foolishness. it's pointless symbolism. 

 

1. Yes it would certainly be nice if right minded people prevented dictators from rising to power in the first place. Given that this has happened more than once or twice in the history of human affairs, I’m going to clarify something I suspect I should not have to about what my statement meant: once a megalomaniac has risen to power, going to war to stop his slaughter of innocents isn’t a needless terrible event, but something human beings have every good reason to do.

2.  Yes I transitioned into a different thought, as was clearly obvious by my wording, what’s your point? This entire point seems to be just you not liking what I said and attempting to claim it’s also poorly thought out, but you engage in a lot of hyperbole to do so.

3.I agree that the evidence would indicate we have not learned our lesson about limiting government overreach of power. Your argument seems to be that none of that matters because it was slave owners that wanted the secession mechanism put into the Constitution in the first place. Two points: Many people wanted many things from the Constitution when it was being formed. Some demanded a Bill of Rights. Would you consider the Bill of Rights pointless just because you disagreed with the reasons someone wanted it? The mechanism existed, it was agreed upon and exercised. Secondly: just because we have thus far failed to some extent to limit government overreach of power doesn’t invalidate any historical landmark including battlefields as a place where that lesson could still be passed on.

4. Yes we can certainly learn from books and notes and diaries and other historical records but I’m going to decline to agree with your idea that we should only seek to do so from these sources and not others.

5. Is all symbolism pointless to you or just symbolism you take issue with? You clearly don’t care for it, that’s fine, but no one has required you or anyone else to visit these places of “pointless symbolism” so you’re not exactly being infringed upon are you? But if you attempt to dictate to others whether they can have any symbolism or not, you are certainly then infringing upon them.

[PhillyB]

2 hours ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Since your preference is to hurl insults instead of sticking to the merits of the debate, I’m going to decline to engage you. Obviously we have differing opinions here, but I’m not going to waste my time going back and forth with you.

you never had any hope of returning a salvo on that one. you can't "go back and forth" with me because you're wrong and you don't know what you're talking about, and that's not up for debate.

[LegioX]

1 hour ago, PhillyB said:

you never had any hope of returning a salvo on that one. you can't "go back and forth" with me because you're wrong and you don't know what you're talking about, and that's not up for debate.

I’m just gonna delete that comment and just say nothing. Looking at your past posts is obvious you will just hurl insults. I’m out.

[PantherOnTheProwl1523]

This thread has become TB fodder as usual.

[PhillyB]

1 hour ago, LegioX said:

I’m just gonna delete that comment and just say nothing. Looking at your past posts is obvious you will just hurl insults. I’m out.

you don't know what you're talking about

[Datawire]

2 minutes ago, PhillyB said:

you don't know what you're talking about

He's right, you know. I have been around long enough to see your comments over the years. I wouldn't waste my time either.

[PhillyB]

9 minutes ago, Datawire said:

He's right, you know. I have been around long enough to see your comments over the years. I wouldn't waste my time either.

cry harder 

[The Huddler]

philly B triggered af

[rico6]

Only triggered folk are the mouth breathers comparing these dumb fug statues to Global Landmarks 

[4Corners]

14 minutes ago, The Huddler said:

philly B triggered af

Almost as triggered as the head nurse 

[Bytes]

On 6/10/2020 at 2:09 PM, 4Corners said:

Absolutely. It’s totally a realistic and very sincere point of view and would totally not be difficult to enforce. Idiot. 

So should it be mandatory that you NOT kneel? See how that works? 

[PhillyB]

2 hours ago, The Huddler said:

philly B triggered af

nah, just tired of idiots stanning for a kind of historical preservation that has never existed in the history of humankind and trying to pass it off as an intellectual argument when all the literature on the subject shits in their mouths

[TheMaulClaw]

On 6/10/2020 at 11:21 PM, AggieLean said:

Who, Robert Lee?

From my point of view, and I’m quite sure of my ancestors, none of the good matters and the bad outweighs the good.  lol @ “some” of his awful behavior aka, “he was a product of his time”

Mighty interesting how some that looked like him actually did good, yet General Lee gets excuses.

”The Highway to Hell is lined with good intentions”

Take his monuments down. 

So we should just get rid of the Panthers entirely then..or you should stop being a fan.

Im not saying that JR was some Carolina saint. I agree that the road to hell is paved with good intentions...but intentions and the Panthers aremt the same. The Panthers arent an intention theyre an actuality.  Take his statue down...but youre a fan of the team that guy brought here, and trying to say thats an awful thing isnt correct. 

[jfra78]

On 6/12/2020 at 4:14 PM, TheMaulClaw said:

So we should just get rid of the Panthers entirely then..or you should stop being a fan.

Im not saying that JR was some Carolina saint. I agree that the road to hell is paved with good intentions...but intentions and the Panthers aremt the same. The Panthers arent an intention theyre an actuality.  Take his statue down...but youre a fan of the team that guy brought here, and trying to say thats an awful thing isnt correct. 

He was talking about Robert Lee.