Richardson Statue Coming Down

[mav1234]

8 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Exactly.  Move them. I'm saying it won't be enough for some people so the end game is when everyone's feelings are no longer hurt.  You give me a timetable on that.  

you're the one that thinks this is part of a grand conspiracy "they" are orchestrating to do something.

I am telling you that this isn't about people's feelings being hurt.  This is about what monuments stand for and what it says to black members of a community to venerate Confederate traitors / slavery.  So, we're gonna change that.  That isn't about feelings.  Some people may think it is, but it isn't.  It is about what a country, and a culture, values.  And history and historical context should and can be part of that, without putting the monuments to traitors front and center in our towns, cities, etc. 

all I'm saying is if you are truly supportive of moving the monuments, advocate for it first and foremost, don't couch it in "BUT THEY WON'T BE SATISFIED SO YOU KNOW THE EGYPTIANS AND SLAVERY AND..."

to be fair, LegioX has largely kept to the stance that he is worried about this impacting museums & battlefields, and I'm sympathetic to that and believe that is not in our interest as a society because of the value those museums have.  But I think right now, the battle is over monuments not in those places - so let's lend our support to the moves and if others don't realize the value museums can have, we can educate them.

[LegioX]

23 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

were you called a racist in this thread yet?

I agree with your stance.

so join me in saying fug you to the people that try to stop that.  let's work against it, advocate for the removal to museums, and educate people about the value of battlefields as museums and how they can provide the historical context necessary to understand the past.

you and I have the same stance, yet look at the difference in our posts.  you are worried about a slippery slope, bringing up pyramids and crap.  instead, let's just say this: we both agree that monuments in public courthouses/open spaces should be moved to battlefields and museums.  the thing is, your slippery slope stance is the same thing being used by people that don't want anything moved AT ALL under any circumstances.  and I think you actually are good withstuff being moved.

And it’s the tangled web we weave. We are not going to appease everyone. Someone is always gonna be upset. So here is the conundrum we are in. 

[Mr. Scot]

Word now that Richardson won't fight the removal of the statue.

According to Scott Fowler, it's gone for good.

Report: Richardson won't challenge removal of statue

[Captroop]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Word now that Richardson won't fight the removal of the statue.

According to Scott Fowler, it's gone for good.

Report: Richardson won't challenge removal of statue

Yeah, regardless of what was agreed to with ink and paper, in reality it was always a gentleman's agreement.

Fighting a tooth-and-nail legal battle to keep a statue of yourself erected has got to be the most embarrassing act of narcissistic petulance that one could possibly engage in. And outside of a few, and one orange guy in particular, I can't imaging anyone being so blithely oblivious to public perception to actually go through with it.

[Shocker]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Word now that Richardson won't fight the removal of the statue.

According to Scott Fowler, it's gone for good.

Report: Richardson won't challenge removal of statue

Great news, glad to see he has a shred of decency left

[mav1234]

23 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Word now that Richardson won't fight the removal of the statue.

According to Scott Fowler, it's gone for good.

Report: Richardson won't challenge removal of statue

Good to hear

[45catfan]

26 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

you're the one that thinks this is part of a grand conspiracy "they" are orchestrating to do something.

I am telling you that this isn't about people's feelings being hurt.  This is about what monuments stand for and what it says to black members of a community to venerate Confederate traitors / slavery.  So, we're gonna change that.  That isn't about feelings.  Some people may think it is, but it isn't.  It is about what a country, and a culture, values.  And history and historical context should and can be part of that, without putting the monuments to traitors front and center in our towns, cities, etc. 

all I'm saying is if you are truly supportive of moving the monuments, advocate for it first and foremost, don't couch it in "BUT THEY WON'T BE SATISFIED SO YOU KNOW THE EGYPTIANS AND SLAVERY AND..."

to be fair, LegioX has largely kept to the stance that he is worried about this impacting museums & battlefields, and I'm sympathetic to that and believe that is not in our interest as a society because of the value those museums have.  But I think right now, the battle is over monuments not in those places - so let's lend our support to the moves and if others don't realize the value museums can have, we can educate them.

It's not simple, only simple people have simple solutions.  MOVE THEM! It's not going to ultimately matter.  But hey, take action, then educate.  Sounds about right.  If you have kept up, most of these places such a as historical battlefields get Federal funding, so tell me how that won't be a potential target in the future?  

I'm saying people are going to try to change/distort/hide/attach disclaimers to history if allowed to and you are saying it's as simple as moving statues and the issue goes *poof* GONE forever.  

I hope your life is as simple as your solution.  Have a nice day!

[mav1234]

14 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

It's not simple, only simple people have simple solutions.  MOVE THEM! It's not going to ultimately matter.  But hey, take action, then educate.  Sounds about right.  If you have kept up, most of these places such a as historical battlefields get Federal funding, so tell me how that won't be a potential target in the future?  

I'm saying people are going to try to change/distort/hide/attach disclaimers to history if allowed to and you are saying it's as simple as moving statues and the issue goes *poof* GONE forever.  

I hope your life is as simple as your solution.  Have a nice day!

Why would this be a "potential target of the future"?  Doesn't make sense.  I think you are confused about the coalition that wants to move these things, which is OK.  If you run into someone that says "Man take this stuff out of battlefields rawr" you simply explain that the reason they shouldn't be in public places is because we want monuments to commemorate and reflect our values, but that battlefields are museums and deserve to reflect the history they are preserving.  We aren't honoring slavery and the Confederacy with these museums, we are preserving history for education.  We don't need to commemorate the Confederacy to remember and learn from its tremendous errors, but we can explain the valuable and important context on it in museums properly to educate people.  There is a wholly different perspective between having a statue in a museum and having one in a public square.

Moving statues is not trying to change history, dude (although based on my experiences, plenty here have quite a view of history that I would call "changed" :P).  How many Germans forget about the Nazis, hm?

Instead of being obstacles to practical, sensible change - moving monuments to museums & battlefields -  under a shady guise of slippery slope fearmongering, support it.  You keep saying things like "oh yeah I'm all for moving them BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SLIPPERY SLOPE."

[Anybodyhome]

34 minutes ago, Shocker said:

Great news, glad to see he has a shred of decency left

Can't comment on the decency thing, but I'd be willing to bet he can't remember what the fugging statue even looks like. Tepper probably made the courtesy call ahead of time, "Mr. Richardson, David Tepper calling, how are you?"

"Who?"

[Stumpy]

2 hours ago, 45catfan said:

What, that the pyramids were helped built with slave labor?  Fact, not fallacy.

Literally a 10 second google search would show that your version of history is inconsistent with the facts...

Egyptian Craftsmen Built Pyramids : Archeology: A burial site debunks belief that the Pharaohs’ shrines were built by slaves. Workers apparently enjoyed their lives and jobs.

Who Built the Pyramids? Not slaves. Archaeologist Mark Lehner, digging deeper, discovers a city of privileged workers.

Egypt's leading archaeologist says 4,000-year-old burial plots with skeletons expose myth that builders were slaves

Just because some book, that has been rewritten hundreds of times by people with their own agendas, says that Jewish slaves built the pyramids, doesn't make it so. The geological and archaeological records are pretty clear on this. And, have been for decades. The first article I posted is from 1991.

Also, I don't think you know what a slippery slope fallacy is.

[Anybodyhome]

4 minutes ago, Stumpy said:

Just because some book, that has been rewritten hundreds of times by people with their own agendas..... doesn't make it so.

Kinda like organized religion....

[Davidson Deac II]

21 minutes ago, Stumpy said:

Literally a 10 second google search would show that your version of history is inconsistent with the facts...

Egyptian Craftsmen Built Pyramids : Archeology: A burial site debunks belief that the Pharaohs’ shrines were built by slaves. Workers apparently enjoyed their lives and jobs.

Who Built the Pyramids? Not slaves. Archaeologist Mark Lehner, digging deeper, discovers a city of privileged workers.

Egypt's leading archaeologist says 4,000-year-old burial plots with skeletons expose myth that builders were slaves

Just because some book, that has been rewritten hundreds of times by people with their own agendas, says that Jewish slaves built the pyramids, doesn't make it so. The geological and archaeological records are pretty clear on this. And, have been for decades. The first article I posted is from 1991.

Also, I don't think you know what a slippery slope fallacy is.

Don't really want to get involved in this argument and I am an agnostic, but just wanted to point out that nowhere in the bible does it state that jewish slaves built the pyramids.  The pyramids aren't even mentioned in the bible.  The jews building the pyramids was mostly a hollywood invention.  If Moses was a real person, he likely existed after most of the pyramids were already built.

[Bronn]

pssht

y'all know damn well aliens built the pyramids

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

You'd think statues are the primary way humans preserve and transfer knowledge reading this thread.