Richardson Statue Coming Down

[mav1234]

1 minute ago, 45catfan said:

What, that the pyramids were helped built with slave labor?  Fact, not fallacy.

1) last time I actually reviewed the historical literature it was actually open for debate how many laborers were slaves and for which pyramids - ancient Egypt was somehow complicated in that respect , but that is neither here nor there :P 2) last I checked nobody was advocating to burn down old buildings in the South that may have been built by slaves.

the slipper slop fallacy is the idea that moving monuments about the confederacy would somehow mean the removal of global icons lol

[LegioX]

Just now, rico6 said:

Oh good lord

What’s the problem? It’s a fact. Y’all are making arguments about abolishing items in this world built from slavery. Well Pyramids were infact built by slaves. the White House in Washington DC was built by slaves. Should we just tear everything down and rebuild everything?

[mav1234]

1 hour ago, Bronn said:

Just don't visit them.

 

So you don't want people who might be offended by monuments to those who fought to preserve slavery to visit the battlefields where they likely lost ancestors too.

Got it.

I actually think that battlefields & museums should have monuments to both sides.  They can provide historical context & information about the Antebellum South and the Civil War in a way that is important and useful to remembering the past and learning from it.

It is important to note that, IMO, the reason to remove monuments, statues, and the traitor's flag from public buildings is not because of people being offended.  IMO  it is because these are places we want the public to see things to look up to, to aspire to.  and fug man, nobody should aspire to be any of the confederate generals or even a confederate soldier.  yeah there's complexity in our history that basically taints every major figure, but the confederacy is particularly egregious.  however, battlefields, monuments ... these are places you go to learn about history.  some are inspired by history, but that doesn't mean we should remove all references to the losing side, no matter how horrible they were.

[Inimicus]

1 minute ago, LegioX said:

What’s the problem? It’s a fact. Y’all are making arguments about abolishing items in this world built from slavery. Well Pyramids were infact built by slaves. the White House in Washington DC was built by slaves. Should we just tear everything down and rebuild everything?

Maybe we should.

 

But lets start with a few dozen statues and see how that works out first.

[LegioX]

12 minutes ago, rico6 said:

We’re still comparing bronze bird poop catchers to historical landmarks I see lol

What does that mean? If you truly studied history you would find out that the ancient Egyptians were very smart for a civilization created 1,000s of years ago. 

[45catfan]

1 minute ago, mav1234 said:

1) last time I actually reviewed the historical literature it was actually open for debate how many laborers were slaves and for which pyramids - ancient Egypt was somehow complicated in that respect , but that is neither here nor there :P 2) last I checked nobody was advocating to burn down old buildings in the South that may have been built by slaves.

the slipper slop fallacy is the idea that moving monuments about the confederacy would somehow mean the removal of global icons lol

So because the percentage of slave labor is not exactly known, it's somehow less bad.  Okay?  

Second point, just give it time...maybe not burn them down, but change, alter....put "disclaimers" up.  Most historical buildings have historical markers that acknowledge the era and circumstances of who and possibly why it was built. 

[OneBadCat]

16 minutes ago, LegioX said:

Why do you demonize a specific group of people who enjoy history? 
 

and don’t  even say I’m supporting keeping statues on private or public land, because I feel that’s exactly where your going to go. 

America doesn’t belong to white people. We shouldn’t have confederate monuments out in the open. They actively hurt a significant population of the citizenry and makes them not feel welcome in their own country. I’m all for putting them in museums because they are a part of history but they should not be glorified in any kind of way. 

[Clicheking]

I just pray that it never goes back up....I have no idea how it was worked into the contract anyway. How do you sell a house and dictate what the buyer does to it once he has it.

[Clicheking]

I just pray that it never goes back up....I have no idea how it was worked into the contract anyway. How do you sell a house and dictate what the buyer does to it once he has it.

[Tbe]

Monuments are for honoring people who added value to society.

Books and museums are for remembering history.

 

[LegioX]

2 minutes ago, OneBadCat said:

America doesn’t belong to white people. We shouldn’t have confederate monuments out in the open. They actively hurt a significant population of the citizenry and makes them not feel welcome in their own country. I’m all for putting them in museums because they are a part of history but they should not be glorified in any kind of way. 

Battlefields are museums. They are owned and operated by the state or national park service. 

[4Corners]

1 hour ago, pantherclaw said:

First of all, it's called being unbiased. 

There are consequences for every choice. 

If there was integrity in anyone involved, there would be no signing of the contract, regardless of the risk in courts. It beats being silent about something ya shouldn't be. 

Wow victim shaming a person who signs a NDA. A new low. 

[mav1234]

1 minute ago, 45catfan said:

So because the percentage of slave labor is not exactly known, it's somehow less bad.  Okay?  

Second point, just give it time...maybe not burn them down, but change, alter....put "disclaimers" up.  Most historical buildings have historical markers that acknowledge the era and circumstances of who and possibly why it was built. 

1) no, I was being pedantic to absolute claims.

2) are you advocating for or against a plaque?   that is the ONLY suggestion I've seen for iconic structures and I think it makes sense.  nobody is seriously advocating for burning the white house right now.  that is slippery slope nonsense.  but moving some traitor's statues to museums/battlefields? yeah, let's do it.  why not?

[45catfan]

1 minute ago, OneBadCat said:

America doesn’t belong to white people. We shouldn’t have confederate monuments out in the open. They actively hurt a significant population of the citizenry and makes them not feel welcome in their own country. I’m all for putting them in museums because they are a part of history but they should not be glorified in any kind of way. 

There's the problem.  I would otherwise be all for this, except for the fact of being housed indoors, does that make it any less offensive to some people?   Changing the location only would appease some people, not all.  Maybe if they put a "disclaimer" on the door or the museums.