Richardson Statue Coming Down

[Tbe]

2 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

All the folks who approved of Richardson's "decorum" rules for the stadium like not taking your shirt off and who were there primarily to see and be seen rather than actually focus on the game. If you're looking for them, they often live here:

https://www.zillow.com/homes/Myers-Park,-Charlotte,-NC_rb/

here:

https://www.zillow.com/homes/28277_rb/

and here:

https://www.zillow.com/homes/28117_rb/

Don’t forget dilworth 

[Bronn]

1 hour ago, LegioX said:

Did you read a single post I have posted? I said I’m all for taking statues down on private and public property and your hear posting why I don’t want the statues down, by calling me a racist. Thanks. You have shown reading comprehension does not work well with you. My entire argument was on “battlefields” 

ps: using big words to make you look smart actually doesn’t make you smarter. 

Are you seriously about to die on the hill of a "battlefields" argument?

Why is that ground so sacred and hallowed for you? It is almost as if you have an underlying motive that really isn't about your ancestors.

True story: My ancestors fought for the South. Of the many we know about, one died at Gettysburg and got tossed in a mass grave, and one came home. None of them owned slaves. I still think that we should tear down all monuments celebrating the South in the Civil War, no matter where they are. Because, the South, in general, represented slavery.

Also, before you go on a tangent about me not knowing history or reading books (an amusing argument, since you don't even know the difference in "your and you're,") know that I am I likely more informed on the subject than you are.
 

[1of10Charnatives]

1 hour ago, Vagrant said:

preservation of the embarrassment that was slavery in any variety shouldn't be anyone's priority. wars were a needless, terrible event where a lot of people died that shouldn't have died because they believed in something stupid or were so simple they didn't know any better. i don't see the purpose of commemorating that in any capacity. 

So going to war against the Nazis to bring an end to the holocaust was a "needless, terrible event"? Your words. Feel free to backtrack and claim that wasn't what you meant and wasn't the war you were referring to, but you didn't take care to be more precise and thoughtful in your original wording. Experience tells me that lack of care in choosing one's words often goes hand in hand with lack of careful thinking. 

I agree that statues and memorials commemorating leaders and soldiers of a losing side which were fighting to preserve a horrific institution should be taken down and left to the dust bin of history. Let these things be remembered in museums and classrooms, where they more rightly belong in the context of cautionary tales, rather than glorified in the public arena. I don't see a single statue of Hitler anywhere, yet no one makes the argument that we should put some up so that "we don't forget".

However, the american civil war was a unique and terrible event in our nation's history, a time when we grappled with unfinished questions and moral dilemmas the founding father chose to leave unresolved in the interest of founding a cohesive nation. While slavery is terrible and rightly has been abolished, the confederacy was not without a leg to stand on. Morally wrong though slavery may have been, the Constitution specifically outlines a legal process under which states may secede from the Union, and all of the Confederate states followed this process properly. Lincoln defied the Constitution he had taken an oath to uphold in declaring he would not allow the Confederate states to withdraw from the Union peacefully. 

In an age when the NSA spies illegally daily on it's own citizens, the FBI has it's own kangaroo court to rubber stamp surveillance requests, Congress circumvents the limitations imposed by the Constitution in which they are granted only specific enumerated powers (please find for me the Constitutional basis justifying the existence of a federal Department of Education, there is none) by putting states at the end of a funding string on which they must dance to a federal tune, and our President himself seems to be barely aware of or hold any regard for Constitutional limitations on his power, can anyone say that walking the battlefields of the Civil War might not yet provide more than one lesson beyond just the struggle to end slavery?

I am southern born and bred and abhore not just slavery and segregation and racism in all it's forms, but I have walked the fields of Gettysburg Pennsylvania, looked out across the peach orchards from Little Round Top, and the ghosts who whispered to me there from across time were not just Union soldiers who shed blood so that other men might be free, but Confederate soldiers cautioning me against the overreach of federal power, however pure the motives might be.

However you might feel about that, men died there, for reasons both good and bad, but no matter what they were our countrymen, and in this one place outside museums, it is not inappropriate to let those flags fly, so that we might stand and look out not just from a classroom, but over the fields where the trees have been watered by the blood of our ancestors and soak in both the lessons of sacrifice and folly. 

[1of10Charnatives]

23 minutes ago, Tbe said:

Don’t forget dilworth 

my bad. 

[Bronn]

39 minutes ago, PantherOnTheProwl1523 said:

Racism is not hereditary because it is a lifestyle choice so don't put accusations on someone that you have no clue about them and how does anyone know if you are one of those that have ancestors that were racists. 

No, it isn't hereditary. But I guarantee that inherited wealth, culture traditions, and privilege are all things that certain people are born into.

Yes, people can break out of it, myself included.

However, when it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably is.

[LegioX]

4 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

So going to war against the Nazis to bring an end to the holocaust was a "needless, terrible event"? Your words. Feel free to backtrack and claim that wasn't what you meant and wasn't the war you were referring to, but you didn't take care to be more precise and thoughtful in your original wording. Experience tells me that lack of care in choosing one's words often goes hand in hand with lack of careful thinking. 

I agree that statues and memorials commemorating leaders and soldiers of a losing side which were fighting to preserve a horrific institution should be taken down and left to the dust bin of history. Let these things be remembered in museums and classrooms, where they more rightly belong in the context of cautionary tales, rather than glorified in the public arena. I don't see a single statue of Hitler anywhere, yet no one makes the argument that we should put some up so that "we don't forget".

However, the american civil war was a unique and terrible event in our nation's history, a time when we grappled with unfinished questions and moral dilemmas the founding father chose to leave unresolved in the interest of founding a cohesive nation. While slavery is terrible and rightly has been abolished, the confederacy was not without a leg to stand on. Morally wrong though slavery may have been, the Constitution specifically outlines a legal process under which states may secede from the Union, and all of the Confederate states followed this process properly. Lincoln defied the Constitution he had taken an oath to uphold in declaring he would not allow the Confederate states to withdraw from the Union peacefully. 

In an age when the NSA spies illegally daily on it's own citizens, the FBI has it's own kangaroo court to rubber stamp surveillance requests, Congress circumvents the limitations imposed by the Constitution in which they are granted only specific enumerated powers (please find for me the Constitutional basis justifying the existence of a federal Department of Education, there is none) by putting states at the end of a funding string on which they must dance to a federal tune, and our President himself seems to be barely aware of or hold any regard for Constitutional limitations on his power, can anyone say that walking the battlefields of the Civil War might not yet provide more than one lesson beyond just the struggle to end slavery?

I am southern born and bred and abhore not just slavery and segregation and racism in all it's forms, but I have walked the fields of Gettysburg Pennsylvania, looked out across the peach orchards from Little Round Top, and the ghosts who whispered to me there from across time were not just Union soldiers who shed blood so that other men might be free, but Confederate soldiers cautioning me against the overreach of federal power, however pure the motives might be.

However you might feel about that, men died there, for reasons both good and bad, but no matter what they were our countrymen, and in this one place outside museums, it is not inappropriate to let those flags fly, so that we might stand and look out not just from a classroom, but over the fields where the trees have been watered by the blood of our ancestors and soak in both the lessons of sacrifice and folly. 

Well stated. I don’t accept racism in anyway, but accept what happened in the past and find it interesting to learn about it. If some people find that “old fashion” then so be it. I don’t go around telling people what they should and should not do. 

[45catfan]

10 hours ago, AggieLean said:

You really want that Robert E Lee monument to stay up, huh? lol

Did you even hit the link?  Nope, and the Lee monument you speak of was in Richmond, not DC.  Getting your facts straight doesn't matter though, right?  The last time I checked, George Washington and Abraham Lincoln didn't fight for the Confederacy.  Carry on spit balling though....

[LegioX]

18 minutes ago, Bronn said:

Are you seriously about to die on the hill of a "battlefields" argument?

Why is that ground so sacred and hallowed for you? It is almost as if you have an underlying motive that really isn't about your ancestors.

True story: My ancestors fought for the South. Of the many we know about, one died at Gettysburg and got tossed in a mass grave, and one came home. None of them owned slaves. I still think that we should tear down all monuments celebrating the South in the Civil War, no matter where they are. Because, the South, in general, represented slavery.

Also, before you go on a tangent about me not knowing history or reading books (an amusing argument, since you don't even know the difference in "your and you're,") know that I am I likely more informed on the subject than you are.
 

Why does it matter what I feel? Why can’t we find common ground and understand there was a massive struggle by Americans on these fields and it would be in our best interest to leave them untouched. Do we seriously need to have everything that happened in the antebellum years and post years to be taken away? (I’m speaking entirely about battlefields) It’s not like your forced to look at these monuments on battlefields everyday you go to work or go out to eat. Just don’t visit them.

[45catfan]

Just now, LegioX said:

Why does it matter what I feel? Why can’t you find common ground and understand there was a massive struggle by Americans on these fields and it would be in our best interest to leave them untouched. Do we seriously need to have everything that happened in the antebellum years and post years to be taken away? (I’m speaking entirely about battlefields) It’s not like your forced to look at these monuments on battlefields everyday you go to work or go out to eat. Just don’t visit them.

Truth be known, they don't want common ground and until you understand that you are chasing your tail.  The common ground is you think like I/we do or you are lower than scum.

[Bronn]

Common ground results in treaties.

Was there a treaty that ended the Civil War?
 

 

 

 

The South lost the Civil War. The end.

[Whatev]

Statues, idols, etc usually have an expiration date.  

[Bronn]

Also, there is a massive struggle by Americans going on right now. The struggle for equality and to end police brutality, particularly against people of color.

Are you so vehement in your arguments as to why those Americans are fighting the good fight for the betterment of the country?

[rodeo]

40 minutes ago, LegioX said:

Well stated. I don’t accept racism in anyway, but accept what happened in the past and find it interesting to learn about it. If some people find that “old fashion” then so be it. I don’t go around telling people what they should and should not do. 

you do, actually. you go around telling black people that they should live with these flags because you personally find it important

[Kyle82]

18 hours ago, bull123 said:

for the maybe 500 or so fans that actually show up

I think more than 500 fans will show up