PFF Ranks All Starting QBs. Where Does Bridgewater Rank?

[LinvilleGorge]

8 minutes ago, RASTAN66 said:

Teddy was immediately successful too, then he got hurt.

I'm taking the other side of your trade.

You are completely dismissing the impact of Teddy's injury and how it delayed his progression.

You will be proven wrong about why Big Time Teddy is here, just watch.

Your pitfall is you don't understand how Tepper assesses value and pays for it accordingly... 

It's ok to have diametrically opposing views, relax fella!

Teddy's and Kurt's respective "immediate successes" weren't really comparable. Kurt threw for more TDs his first season as a starter than Teddy has in his career. Teddy's a placeholder. I expect him to be okay. If you're expecting him to be a legit elite QB you're almost certainly going to be disappointed... or more likely, troll your ass off trying to convince everyone he actually is elite despite his pedestrian numbers and the losses piling up.

[RASTAN66]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Teddy's and Kurt's respective "immediate successes" weren't really comparable. Kurt threw for more TDs his first season as a starter than Teddy has in his career. Teddy's a placeholder. I expect him to be okay. If you're expecting him to be a legit elite QB you're almost certainly going to be disappointed... or more likely, troll your ass off trying to convince everyone he actually is elite despite his pedestrian numbers and the losses piling up.

I'm not trying to "convince" anyone of anything!

The reason Tepper is one of the wealthiest men in the world is he has a demonstrated ability to identify and invest in value that the rest of the market is missing --- you constitute the rest of the market.

I'm on the same side of the trade as Tepper, you are on the other side --- one side will be correct.

In a regular market the settlement date always comes, here's how I propose we settle this trade...

...you clearly know more than me, you are an expert, I am a complete novice, and I am wagering on a washed up no-good journeyman QB who just got lucky to sign a $63 million contract....

...hence, I propose you give me 10-to-1 odds in my favor and we agree to the following:

You contend Big Time Teddy (B.T.T.) is simply a "bridge" QB and will be gone by the opening game of the 2022 season...

...if B.T.T. is NOT the Panthers starter in 2022 I will write "LinvilleGeorge is the smartest most handsome man the Carolina Huddle has ever seen"...and I will write it 20 times.

On the flipside, if B.T.T. IS the starter game-1 of the 2022 season you write "RASTAN66 is the smartest and most handsome man the Carolina Huddle has ever seen, and I should have listened to him"....and you write that 200 times.

Whadya say?  Do we have a trade?

[Stingray3030]

This is fun to watch......best read in weeks!  

[Stingray3030]

7 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

If Teddy puts up numbers equivalent to Dak's worst season he'll have a career year and we'll all be happy with his play.

Can we discuss this for a second also?  I would assume you are refering to Dak's 2017 year...

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
Career					64	64	40-24-0	1363	2071	65.8	15778	97	4.7	36	1.7	782	90	7.6	7.8	11.6	246.5	97.0		136	826	6.77	6.92	6.2	8	14	60
2016*	23	DAL	QB	4	16	16	13-3-0	311	459	67.8	3667	23	5.0	4	0.9	185	83	8.0	8.6	11.8	229.2	104.9	78.8	25	143	7.28	7.86	5.2	5	5	16
2017	24	DAL	QB	4	16	16	9-7-0	308	490	62.9	3324	22	4.5	13	2.7	162	81	6.8	6.5	10.8	207.8	86.6	69.5	32	185	6.01	5.74	6.1	0	4	14
2018*	25	DAL	QB	4	16	16	10-6-0	356	526	67.7	3885	22	4.2	8	1.5	206	90	7.4	7.5	10.9	242.8	96.9	56.2	56	347	6.08	6.22	9.6	3	5	14
2019	26	DAL	QB	4	16	16	8-8-0	388	596	65.1	4902	30	5.0	11	1.8	229	62	8.2	8.4	12.6	306.4	99.7		23	151	7.68	7.84	3.7			16

...yeah see Teddy already had that year in 2015 only his was slightly better and got him to the Pro Bowl so.....

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
Career					44	34	22-12-0	698	1070	65.2	7652	38	3.6	25	2.3	365	87	7.2	6.8	11.0	173.9	88.3		97	653	6.00	5.68	8.3	5	6	28
3 yrs		MIN			30	28	17-11-0	551	851	64.7	6150	28	3.3	22	2.6	290	87	7.2	6.7	11.2	205.0	86.3		83	556	5.99	5.53	8.9	4	4	22
2 yrs		NOR			14	6	5-1-0	147	219	67.1	1502	10	4.6	3	1.4	75	45	6.9	7.2	10.2	107.3	96.1		14	97	6.03	6.31	6.0	1	2	6
2014	22	MIN	QB	5	13	12	6-6-0	259	402	64.4	2919	14	3.5	12	3.0	137	87	7.3	6.6	11.3	224.5	85.2	54.4	39	249	6.05	5.46	8.8	3	3	9
2015*	23	MIN	QB	5	16	16	11-5-0	292	447	65.3	3231	14	3.1	9	2.0	153	52	7.2	6.9	11.1	201.9	88.7	57.5	44	307	5.96	5.70	9.0	1	1	13
2017	25	MIN		5	1	0		0	2	0.0	0	0	0.0	1	50.0		0	0.0	-22.5		0.0	0.0	0.0	0	0	0.00	-22.50	0.0			0
2018	26	NOR		5	5	1	0-1-0	14	23	60.9	118	1	4.3	1	4.3	8	18	5.1	4.0	8.4	23.6	70.6	39.8	2	8	4.40	3.40	8.0			1
2019	27	NOR	qb	5	9	5	5-0-0	133	196	67.9	1384	9	4.6	2	1.0	67	45	7.1	7.5	10.4	153.8	99.1		12	89	6.23	6.66	5.8	1	2	5

I'm just not sure using Dak as the barometer for exceptional QB play is reasonable.....

[t96]

Just gonna add, MN Vikings, during the camp Teddy got injured, were extremely excited about his improvements and maturation that year and offseason and everyone there (fans, media, the team) was convinced he’d take a huge step forward and show he was definitely 100% THE franchise QB in MN. Obviously that can be kind of biased and pre-injury Teddy is certainly a different player than current Teddy, but I do think it’s worth noting how incredibly high they were on him before the injury, despite his pedestrian stats his first two seasons as starter.

 

I do think that looking at Teddy’s stats and play from last year filling in for Brees is the best indicator. 9 TDs nearly 1400 yards in 5 starts is really rock solid, not to mention 5-0. Those are on the level of Brees’ stats in the same run heavy offense they’ve been running since 2017. Last year’s Aints offense was not the Payton offenses of the past where the QB can put up 5000 yards easily, it was way more balanced. Yes, the talent of the team around him and the OL are certainly factors that can’t be ignored, but there are many positives to Teddy’s game. I’m certainly skeptical he’ll be the “answer,” but I’m rooting for him big time and would love to see him prove everyone wrong and be our franchise QB rather than to have to try to search from scratch and draft some scrub hoping he’s Mahomes but turns out more like Trubisky, Rosen, etc.

[Carl Spackler]

He should be in the 16-22 range but this is fairly reasonable. 

[mrcompletely11]

11 hours ago, RASTAN66 said:

Personally I put Big Time Teddy at T11 with Dak & Garoppolo...

...and I expect him to outperform both!

Rhule's Rules rule!

It's Teddy Time!

VIVE LE PANTHERS!!

Please just stop with this nonsense.  The posters with the blue tinted glasses just ruin this board

[Captroop]

2 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Please just stop with this nonsense.  The posters with the blue tinted glasses just ruin this board

Teams with a good game plan and the right personnel have made due, and even excelled with average QBs. A quarterback average skillset who knows the playbook, and avoids costly mistakes can have a Pro Bowl type year in the right scheme. And considering this is Rhule's decision, and how much money we threw at him, there's no reason at this time to think he's not capable of exceeding expectations.

[Waldo]

1 hour ago, Stingray3030 said:

Can we discuss this for a second also?  I would assume you are refering to Dak's 2017 year...

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
Career					64	64	40-24-0	1363	2071	65.8	15778	97	4.7	36	1.7	782	90	7.6	7.8	11.6	246.5	97.0		136	826	6.77	6.92	6.2	8	14	60
2016*	23	DAL	QB	4	16	16	13-3-0	311	459	67.8	3667	23	5.0	4	0.9	185	83	8.0	8.6	11.8	229.2	104.9	78.8	25	143	7.28	7.86	5.2	5	5	16
2017	24	DAL	QB	4	16	16	9-7-0	308	490	62.9	3324	22	4.5	13	2.7	162	81	6.8	6.5	10.8	207.8	86.6	69.5	32	185	6.01	5.74	6.1	0	4	14
2018*	25	DAL	QB	4	16	16	10-6-0	356	526	67.7	3885	22	4.2	8	1.5	206	90	7.4	7.5	10.9	242.8	96.9	56.2	56	347	6.08	6.22	9.6	3	5	14
2019	26	DAL	QB	4	16	16	8-8-0	388	596	65.1	4902	30	5.0	11	1.8	229	62	8.2	8.4	12.6	306.4	99.7		23	151	7.68	7.84	3.7			16

...yeah see Teddy already had that year in 2015 only his was slightly better and got him to the Pro Bowl so.....

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
Career					44	34	22-12-0	698	1070	65.2	7652	38	3.6	25	2.3	365	87	7.2	6.8	11.0	173.9	88.3		97	653	6.00	5.68	8.3	5	6	28
3 yrs		MIN			30	28	17-11-0	551	851	64.7	6150	28	3.3	22	2.6	290	87	7.2	6.7	11.2	205.0	86.3		83	556	5.99	5.53	8.9	4	4	22
2 yrs		NOR			14	6	5-1-0	147	219	67.1	1502	10	4.6	3	1.4	75	45	6.9	7.2	10.2	107.3	96.1		14	97	6.03	6.31	6.0	1	2	6
2014	22	MIN	QB	5	13	12	6-6-0	259	402	64.4	2919	14	3.5	12	3.0	137	87	7.3	6.6	11.3	224.5	85.2	54.4	39	249	6.05	5.46	8.8	3	3	9
2015*	23	MIN	QB	5	16	16	11-5-0	292	447	65.3	3231	14	3.1	9	2.0	153	52	7.2	6.9	11.1	201.9	88.7	57.5	44	307	5.96	5.70	9.0	1	1	13
2017	25	MIN		5	1	0		0	2	0.0	0	0	0.0	1	50.0		0	0.0	-22.5		0.0	0.0	0.0	0	0	0.00	-22.50	0.0			0
2018	26	NOR		5	5	1	0-1-0	14	23	60.9	118	1	4.3	1	4.3	8	18	5.1	4.0	8.4	23.6	70.6	39.8	2	8	4.40	3.40	8.0			1
2019	27	NOR	qb	5	9	5	5-0-0	133	196	67.9	1384	9	4.6	2	1.0	67	45	7.1	7.5	10.4	153.8	99.1		12	89	6.23	6.66	5.8	1	2	5

I'm just not sure using Dak as the barometer for exceptional QB play is reasonable.....

Dak isn't a barometer for exceptional play, he is just exceptional compared to Teddy. Good use of stats but it still makes the point, and that's against Dak and not against an elite franchise QB.

It will be a fun year and Teddy gets his chance. Making him out to be exceptional or even close to the top 1/3 of QBs in the league is just not a reasonable stance at this point. 

[raz]

that is one strange list.   id put teddy at 15 or so.   how are they putting him behind baker mayfield?   

[Stingray3030]

8 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Dak isn't a barometer for exceptional play, he is just exceptional compared to Teddy. Good use of stats but it still makes the point, and that's against Dak and not against an elite franchise QB.

It will be a fun year and Teddy gets his chance. Making him out to be exceptional or even close to the top 1/3 of QBs in the league is just not a reasonable stance at this point. 

I wasn't claiming anything about Teddy - I didn't weigh in at all on my opinion of his talent/future.  I simply said Dak seems to me to be an odd QB to use to judge someone else's skills by.  

What proves he is exceptional compared to Teddy though?  People always get hung up on the wrong stats for QB's - it isn't only about yards, INT's, and TD's - those are very heavily influenced by schedule, field position/defense, scheme, pass attempts, etc...  You can't really do apples to apples with just those, but that is what people look at primarily.  You need to look at yd/att, Int %, comp %, QB Rate, personnel on the O-line and WR to get a much clearer picture. 

Dak has arguably the best O-line in the NFL (3 Pro Bowlers and 1 All Pro), a top 2-3 RB and one of the best receiving RB's in the league, a top 3-4 WR/TE crew, and a top 10 defense.  They were in the bottom 5 in starting field position meaning a much higher opportunity for yardage than most teams.  he was 6th in the league in passing attempts.  You can't ask for a much better situation to be in as a QB to put up big stats. 

Yet with all that his team was 8-8, and his league ranking with all those stats other than the big 3 were 10-13th in the league - not to mention 14th in INT's.  

Give that situation to Rogers, Brady, Brees, Mahomes, Watson, etc.. and it would be amazing.  Comparing one QB who has had little time to prove anything to a guy with 4 years as a starter with a straight up arsenal around him is ridiculous to start.  That was my long-winded point.

[Waldo]

1 hour ago, Stingray3030 said:

I wasn't claiming anything about Teddy - I didn't weigh in at all on my opinion of his talent/future.  I simply said Dak seems to me to be an odd QB to use to judge someone else's skills by.  

What proves he is exceptional compared to Teddy though?  People always get hung up on the wrong stats for QB's - it isn't only about yards, INT's, and TD's - those are very heavily influenced by schedule, field position/defense, scheme, pass attempts, etc...  You can't really do apples to apples with just those, but that is what people look at primarily.  You need to look at yd/att, Int %, comp %, QB Rate, personnel on the O-line and WR to get a much clearer picture. 

Dak has arguably the best O-line in the NFL (3 Pro Bowlers and 1 All Pro), a top 2-3 RB and one of the best receiving RB's in the league, a top 3-4 WR/TE crew, and a top 10 defense.  They were in the bottom 5 in starting field position meaning a much higher opportunity for yardage than most teams.  he was 6th in the league in passing attempts.  You can't ask for a much better situation to be in as a QB to put up big stats. 

Yet with all that his team was 8-8, and his league ranking with all those stats other than the big 3 were 10-13th in the league - not to mention 14th in INT's.  

Give that situation to Rogers, Brady, Brees, Mahomes, Watson, etc.. and it would be amazing.  Comparing one QB who has had little time to prove anything to a guy with 4 years as a starter with a straight up arsenal around him is ridiculous to start.  That was my long-winded point.

Gotcha and kind of got that vibe. I meant no negative or to come off as attacking you, just throwing it out there. 

I don't care about pro-bowls, it's a glorified popularity contest with name recognition being more important than actual play. Teddy's probowl year was awful. And wasn't he a runner up and got in because someone else bowed out? I won't take that value to 0 but it's pretty close. 

The wins and losses can't be attributed solely on the QBs stats without a lot of film and evaluations. This isn't baseball where it's very clear how to attribute a win to a pitcher. Not lossing a game and putting the team on their back to win a game is two different things. So with all of that, how many of those 5 games for Teddy last year did he win and how many did he not lose? And that is not taking anything away from QBs not losing a game, Allen did it last year but when it came time that he had to put the team on his back he couldn't and is now gone. So we can compare QBs to other QBs and even that still takes some evaluation.

It wouldn't be fair to compare Teddy to a Rodgers or Brees or Mahomes,I agree it's not close or fair. Comparing him to Dak who is a solid starter with good talent around him is a more achievable comparison. As for the Oline, Teddy had a better one last year and still put up worse numbers with a much better team around him. And that's playing 5 games as a backup and not grinding out 16 games. If I had to guess, that is why the comparison to Dak. We aren't projecting Teddy's numbers to our team, we are comparing last years numbers and Teddy was on the Saints who had better offense talent than Dallas last year.

It's not hating on Teddy but just accepting him for who he is which looks like a journeyman as starter. A guy that was brought in to build the new OC's offense due to familiarity. It worked with KC and Smith so I am hopeful for us but I am not expecting Teddy to suddenly be better than he has been his entire career. 

 

[Borat]

Small sample; we'll see.

[mc52beast]

When Teddy has succeeded he has always had a stout defense to support him. He’s not the kind of guy who’s going to win a 38-35 shootout.

I put him around 18-20