Panthers about to pick up $10.8 million in cap savings

[jfra78]

1 hour ago, joemac said:

You really want to pay a guy 20+ million a year for around 3 sacks a season?

 

1 hour ago, Stingray3030 said:

Lazy, injury-prone, over-rated - all adds up to overpaid!  No thanks!

 

7 hours ago, PantherPhann89 said:

Lol, that won't happen. He'll want that and then some, and then more...

Just stirring poo up.  I do wonder what decent edge rushers are available

[stbugs]

1 hour ago, joemac said:

You really want to pay a guy 20+ million a year for around 3 sacks a season?

We are already paying $13-14M a year for a guy with 3 sacks total the past two years so why not. The more the merrier.

[jfra78]

4 minutes ago, stbugs said:

We are already paying $13-14M a year for a guy with 3 sacks total the past two years so why not. The more the merrier.

He had a bad year on an extremely bad defense, coached by an extremly bad DC.  The following year he was out with injury. I get you hate everything about the Panthers, always want them to suck and will turn anything positive into a negative.  I'm not going to do that

[stbugs]

34 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

He had a bad year on an extremely bad defense, coached by an extremly bad DC.  The following year he was out with injury. I get you hate everything about the Panthers, always want them to suck and will turn anything positive into a negative.  I'm not going to do that

Lol. Short hasn’t been good since 2017. Stop holding on, it’s what will make this rebuild worse. Why would I be on here if I hated the Panthers? That’s such a weak response. How is 3 sacks for $32M a positive the past two years? Excuses left and right. Point is that Short has done nothing the past two years and guess what he was part of the reason for the bad D in 2018. He was paid like Fletcher Cox as a top DT and we got that for a couple years and then got next to nothing the past two years. It’s like Cam all over. People really think 2015-2017 Short is still around?

I’m just a realistic fan who knows we aren’t making the playoffs this year so I’d much rather roll over Short’s $26.5M that we can save this year and next ($17M in dead money is there, can’t be changed). I’d rather invest in the young guys or sign some studs in 2022/2023 when we are actually competing. Paying through the nose for a mediocre DT is dumb. Everyone in here arguing for him to stay in 2020 seems to think we should cut him next year. I’d rather save the money and cut him now. I know we are rebuilding and Short doesn’t fit the 2 year plan let alone the 5 year plan.

[joemac]

46 minutes ago, stbugs said:

We are already paying $13-14M a year for a guy with 3 sacks total the past two years so why not. The more the merrier.

I assume you're talking about Short - who is a DT, not a DE.

[jfra78]

1 minute ago, stbugs said:

Lol. Short hasn’t been good since 2017. Stop holding on, it’s what will make this rebuild worse. Why would I be on here if I hated the Panthers? That’s such a weak response. How is 3 sacks for $32M a positive the past two years? Excuses left and right. Point is that Short has done nothing the past two years and guess what he was part of the reason for the bad D in 2018. He was paid like Fletcher Cox as a top DT and we got that for a couple years and then got next to nothing the past two years. It’s like Cam all over. People really think 2015-2017 Short is still around?

I’m just a realistic fan who knows we aren’t making the playoffs this year so I’d much rather roll over Short’s $26.5M that we can save this year and next ($17M in dead money is there, can’t be changed). I’d rather invest in the young guys or sign some studs in 2022/2023 when we are actually competing. Paying through the nose for a mediocre DT is dumb. Everyone in here arguing for him to stay in 2020 seems to think we should cut him next year. I’d rather save the money and cut him now. I know we are rebuilding and Short doesn’t fit the 2 year plan let alone the 5 year plan.

Stop saying 3 sacks in 2 years, its not accurate and you cant blame a player for getting hurt.  2018 was a bad year for short. Like I said he was on a bad defense with a bad DC.  I would rather believe the 1 year of bad production was an exception and not the rule for KK.  Really how can you believe that he sucks after 1 mediocre season?

[Stingray3030]

35 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

Stop saying 3 sacks in 2 years, its not accurate and you cant blame a player for getting hurt.  2018 was a bad year for short. Like I said he was on a bad defense with a bad DC.  I would rather believe the 1 year of bad production was an exception and not the rule for KK.  Really how can you believe that he sucks after 1 mediocre season?

What constitutes a "bad defense?"  They were 15th in yards and most importantly for Short 12th against the run?  The following season he missed almost the entire year and they were 29th against the run.  I wouldn't consider that a bad defense....not one of the best but certainly not bad in 2018. 

Short specifically led all D-linemen in tackles, led the team in tackles for loss, and was 3rd in QB hits.  The guy made the Pro Bowl that year - only other defensive player to make it was Luke.  There are many stats to judge a DT on than just sacks.

[philit99]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

Lol. Short hasn’t been good since Star left for Buffalo.

Fixed it for you, and now that Brown has been drafted Short will feast again. Count on it.

[Waldo]

1 hour ago, jfra78 said:

Stop saying 3 sacks in 2 years, its not accurate and you cant blame a player for getting hurt.  2018 was a bad year for short. Like I said he was on a bad defense with a bad DC.  I would rather believe the 1 year of bad production was an exception and not the rule for KK.  Really how can you believe that he sucks after 1 mediocre season?

The best ability is availability. Added to the fact he is vastly overpaid at this point is not a good spot for him to be in. 

[jfra78]

9 minutes ago, Waldo said:

The best ability is availability. Added to the fact he is vastly overpaid at this point is not a good spot for him to be in. 

The NFL is a violent sport and players cant be held accountable for injuries.  He is paid what he deserves to be paid

[stbugs]

1 hour ago, Stingray3030 said:

What constitutes a "bad defense?"  They were 15th in yards and most importantly for Short 12th against the run?  The following season he missed almost the entire year and they were 29th against the run.  I wouldn't consider that a bad defense....not one of the best but certainly not bad in 2018. 

Short specifically led all D-linemen in tackles, led the team in tackles for loss, and was 3rd in QB hits.  The guy made the Pro Bowl that year - only other defensive player to make it was Luke.  There are many stats to judge a DT on than just sacks.

He led our team not all DL. He made the pro bowl as a replacement. Turner made the pro bowl the last two years as well and everyone thinks he wasn’t good. Short was OK in 2018, but he wasn’t playing up to his contract.

Also, we were a bad D in 2018. Did you not watch our 1-7 finish? 15th in yards because of the way we play. How about looking at yards per play? We were 26th at 6.0 yards per play. Only 4 teams gave up 6.1-6.3 yards per play. We just happened to have the second fewest plays run against our D. Our offense basically gave the D way fewer opportunities. Also, how is 4.7 ypc (24th) good? You used total yards because it makes us look decent yet in per play stats we were near the bottom. Again, how did our DC get sacked if we were so solid? We went from bottom 10 D per play in 2018 to just awful in every facet in 2019.

[Waldo]

39 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

The NFL is a violent sport and players cant be held accountable for injuries.  He is paid what he deserves to be paid

That is ridiculous and sideways. If that was true then Cam would still be here.

He is nowhere worth $20 million a year for this and next year. 

[Wes21]

1 hour ago, philit99 said:

Fixed it for you, and now that Brown has been drafted Short will feast again. Count on it.

I agree.  Short's game is at its best when he's got someone like Brown to run with. 

[Stingray3030]

21 minutes ago, stbugs said:

He led our team not all DL. He made the pro bowl as a replacement. Turner made the pro bowl the last two years as well and everyone thinks he wasn’t good. Short was OK in 2018, but he wasn’t playing up to his contract.

Also, we were a bad D in 2018. Did you not watch our 1-7 finish? 15th in yards because of the way we play. How about looking at yards per play? We were 26th at 6.0 yards per play. Only 4 teams gave up 6.1-6.3 yards per play. We just happened to have the second fewest plays run against our D. Our offense basically gave the D way fewer opportunities. Also, how is 4.7 ypc (24th) good? You used total yards because it makes us look decent yet in per play stats we were near the bottom. Again, how did our DC get sacked if we were so solid? We went from bottom 10 D per play in 2018 to just awful in every facet in 2019.

That is what I meant when I said he led D-line - our team not the NFL.  Bad verbiage on my part.  Turner has actually made the last 5 Pro Bowls and I DO think he is good.  I watch every Panther game and I saw quite a few big runs for CmC up the middle and very few sacks/pressures from the middle.  

It also isn't fair to say we were low in attempts against us for no reason - they didn't just get lucky that people didn't run against them as much.  They earned it with a decent 3rd down stops and field position.  That still counts as good defense.  Teams also tend to have higher Yd/Att with fewer attempts - look at just about any decent RB or WR.  They were top 10 in plays against them period. 

Also look at the turnover rates - you said it - it is the way they played.  They were 12-15 in picks and fumbles which contributed heavily.  Again not saying they were great but I wouldn't agree they were bad.