Rhule's off-season approach...

[Icege]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Define "excuse"? I don't think Flacco was ever very good. I just think he's better than Teddy has ever been.

Earlier, you made a reference to Teddy's best statistical year (MIN) and compared it to Flacco. It was pointed out that Flacco had 80+ more pass attempts (317/531 for 59.7% with 7.2yds Y/A). Your response to that was that they were pushing the ball downfield to open up the running game, and that the Saints game is built around getting the ball out quickly (which you believe Teddy did not do well, citing Kyle Allen having a quicker release.

Nevermind that Teddy's stats were from a 2015 Minnesota offense that ran entirely through Adrian Peterson with his weapons being the shell of Mike Wallace and a rookie Stefon Diggs. Teddy threw for 600yds less along with 8 less TDs and one less INT. This was while being 292/447 (65.3%) and a 7.2 Y/A. Teddy and Flacco were in similar offenses where they were asked to open up the run game. They both had rookie speedsters (Torrey Smith, Stefon Diggs) and vets (Anquan Boldin, the shell of Mike Wallace). Teddy was in his 2nd season, Flacco in his 5th. Teddy had a better completion percentage and an equal Y/A. They were nearly equal when you look at the data, with Bridgewater being definitively more accurate. You're praising Flacco for his performance in this type of offense, criticizing Bridgewater for his (nearly equal) performance (minus the Super Bowl ring and Baltimore's defense), and shifting the goalposts by hammering on the Kyle Allen point.

Referenced quotes below:

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Flacco threw for 3800 yards and 22 TDs vs. 10 INTs that season. Teddy's best season was 3200 yards with 14 TDs vs. 9 INTs.

Flacco was a much better QB than Teddy and his ability to push the ball down the field really opened up the running game.

2 hours ago, *FreeFua* said:

Flacco had 84 more passing attempts than Teddy in his SB year vs Teddy 2015.

Teddy had a higher yards per attempt. But keep doing you. 

2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Totally different offenses. That Ravens offense was built around pushing the ball down the field to open up their running game. That Saints' offense is built around getting the ball out very quickly, something Teddy didn't do very well.

 

[LinvilleGorge]

I think you're still operating under the premise that I think Flacco was a good QB. I don't. I think he was a fairly average to above average QB at his very best and that the Ravens built an offense around him to maximize his skill set. My only point was that Flacco was better than Teddy. He was.

[MasterAwesome]

15 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It's almost as if we don't have a direct comparison of another QB playing in that same system with the same supporting cast. Brees is always at or near the top of the NFL in average time to throw. Teddy was below average in that same category in that same system with the same supporting cast.

 

It’s really crazy to fathom how Drew Brees could possibly be more comfortable in that offense than Bridgewater. If your bar for Bridgewater is one of the greatest QBs of all time in an offensive system he’s operated in for almost 15 years, then that explains a lot about your sourness about Teddy. I think you understand how ridiculous it is to compare Teddy to Brees which is why you like to play these association games and continuously drop Kyle Allen’s name when talking about Teddy.

What was the point about bringing up Allen’s Time to Throw? Again...when you have defenders in your face within 2 seconds of every snap, your time to throw is gonna be low. Not sure why I have to explain this. It’s not necessarily commendable to have a low Time to Throw...and it’s a pretty damn worthless metric to compare for different QBs across different systems, which is what you did. But hey I’ll follow your lead and do just that:

-Andy Dalton had the lowest Time to Throw in the league last year (AKA BEST QB)

-Bridgewater had the same Time to Throw as Patrick Mahomes (AKA Super Bowl CONFIRMED)

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

It’s really crazy to fathom how Drew Brees could possibly be more comfortable in that offense than Bridgewater. If your bar for Bridgewater is one of the greatest QBs of all time in an offensive system he’s operated in for almost 15 years, then that explains a lot about your sourness about Teddy. I think you understand how ridiculous it is to compare Teddy to Brees which is why you like to play these association games and continuously drop Kyle Allen’s name when talking about Teddy.

What was the point about bringing up Allen’s Time to Throw? Again...when you have defenders in your face within 2 seconds of every snap, your time to throw is gonna be low. Not sure why I have to explain this. It’s not necessarily commendable to have a low Time to Throw...and it’s a pretty damn worthless metric to compare for different QBs across different systems, which is what you did. But hey I’ll follow your lead and do just that:

-Andy Dalton had the lowest Time to Throw in the league last year (AKA BEST QB)

-Bridgewater had the same Time to Throw as Patrick Mahomes (AKA Super Bowl CONFIRMED)

All I'm saying is we have a direct comparison in the same system with the same supporting cast. Dalton nor Mahomes are that.

I wouldn't expect Teddy to rival Brees in that regard, but I wouldn't expect Brees to be #1 and Teddy to be below average in that metric in the same system with the same supporting cast. Allen got the ball out faster and he was sacked at crazy high rate behind our OL last year. Our OL is going to be a patchwork again. If Teddy doesn't get the ball out a lot faster next year, he probably doesn't see week four.

[Drk89Wng]

42 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I think you're still operating under the premise that I think Flacco was a good QB. I don't. I think he was a fairly average to above average QB at his very best and that the Ravens built an offense around him to maximize his skill set. My only point was that Flacco was better than Teddy. He was.

Home boy above proved your point wrong with actual numbers. Let your bias go and just admit statistically he was correct. Your argument isn’t justified beyond your own personal beliefs.

[*FreeFua*]

26 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

All I'm saying is we have a direct comparison in the same system with the same supporting cast. Dalton nor Mahomes are that.

I wouldn't expect Teddy to rival Brees in that regard, but I wouldn't expect Brees to be #1 and Teddy to be below average in that metric in the same system with the same supporting cast. Allen got the ball out faster and he was sacked at crazy high rate behind our OL last year. Our OL is going to be a patchwork again. If Teddy doesn't get the ball out a lot faster next year, he probably doesn't see week four.

Again, let me remind you of the pressure Teddy saw in 2015...

As a 2nd year QB, this would’ve wrecked most young QB’s but Teddy was a Blair Walsh chip shot away from winning his first playoff game in year 2. 
 

Allen has terrible pocket awareness and his footwork is atrocious. Teddy has proven he can play under historically bad pressure statistics. 

[Icege]

31 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I think you're still operating under the premise that I think Flacco was a good QB. I don't. I think he was a fairly average to above average QB at his very best and that the Ravens built an offense around him to maximize his skill set. My only point was that Flacco was better than Teddy. He was.

Not at all. I'm operating under the premise that given nearly identical data, your disdain for the Bridgewater signing has created inconsistencies in your justification for your perspective.

In this scenario, you compared their best statistical seasons to one another and justified Flacco having more passing attempts by stating that he had to throw the ball deep to open up the run. Meanwhile, Teddy was in a run first offense as well. He had the same Y/A as Flacco did (7.2yds) with a 5%+ better completion percentage.

When it was pointed out that Flacco had more passing attempts which typically correlates with more yards and passing TDs, your response was that Flacco was in a run first offense while Teddy with the Saints was in an offense that required getting the ball out (quotes included in prior post). This was a bit out of left field, as the conversation was specifically about 2015 Bridgewater vs. 2012 Flacco and not 2019 Bridgewater vs 2012 Flacco. Saying that it's okay for Flacco having more passing attempts because he was in a run-heavy offense (which, again, TB was also in) is excusing him while condemning Bridgewater for being in the same situation while also moving the goalposts by shifting to his season that he spent as a back-up to Drew Brees.

[LinvilleGorge]

I think you're reading waaaaaaaaay more into this than what I intended. My only point was that Flacco is better than Teddy, in response to a poster saying that Flacco won a Super Bowl.

Yes, I think the Teddy signing is a big mistake and I think we were likely bidding against ourselves. I just hope that our OL and defense are bad enough to still get us to a record where we can still have a shot at a legit franchise QB. Teddy ain't it.

[Icege]

I'm literally looking at what you have posted. When you were countered on 2012 Flacco vs 2015 Bridgewater, you referenced 2019 Bridgewater out of nowhere. Users, myself included on more than one occasion, have countered some of your reasons that you have cited for not liking the signing with data that you have willfully ignored/disregarded. I say this because you make the very same points in other threads (Teddy's deep ball capability, for example).

I'm totally okay with you not liking the signing because you don't believe it is in the best interest of the team. I'm not okay though with disregarding what is known and that is that the data does not support a lot of the points made against the signing. I'm not looking to convert anyone to the "Our QB of the Teddy" church if there is such a thing, I'm just looking for consistent application of data and rationalizations. ᕦ(ò_óˇ)

[RASTAN66]

Gentlemen and ladies, it’s all about the benjamins. 
 

The 2020 QB merry-go-round was the most active market for NFL’s QB’s ever...

...Big Time Teddy secured more guaranteed cash than every other QB except the GOATOM.

The signal being sent about B.T.T. by the NFL labor market is diametrically opposed to the incredibly slanted/tainted/poisoned  “takes” the Negative Nancy’s are papering these here halls with.

Folks, a question for many of you to ponder...

...if you had to narrow Tepper’s core competency to a single point — what say ye?

 

VIVE LA PANTHERS!

 

[pantherclaw]

14 hours ago, MMA said:

Not going to win with Teddy. 

Why haven't you called Rhule and Brady and convinced them of your drivel?

[RASTAN66]

8 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

...I  think we were likely bidding against ourselves.

Why do you keep saying this?

There is tons of evidence demand  for Teddy in the NFL labor market was robust...

...and the ultimate outcome proves this was the case — Big Time Teddy signed the largest overall contract ($60M+) and the 2nd largest in terms of guaranteed money ($33M, only GOATOM got more)...

...you’d have to believe Tepper is a complete and total dumbass of the highest order to assert his information was so bad that he was “bidding against himself” in this situation.

Really?

The reason Tepp is worth $11B...

...and the same reason he didn’t bid higher when The Big Cat (LOL) was playing the media w/ leaks/info related to Navarro...

...is, The Big Tepp a-l-w-a-y-s has the best information — period.

Moving on, The Big Tepp’s  core competency which has allowed him to become THE single richest NFL owner is his ability to recognize value where others don’t...

...Big Time Teddy will be one of his most favored positions in the long run, count on it .

 

 

[LinvilleGorge]

There was rampant media speculation that Teddy could get up to $30M per year... because the NFL LOVES to overpay mediocre QBs. He didn't get anywhere close to that though. That's not because Tepper is such a shrewd negotiator, it's because no one else was offering him more. The Saints let him walk and paid a special teamer big bucks because they valued the special teamer more.

[*FreeFua*]

9 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The Saints let him walk and paid a special teamer big bucks because they valued the special teamer more.

Bridgewater has been wanting a starting job since losing his due to injury, he’s said it in interviews. He chose backing up Brees last year over starting in Miami because it was the smarter thing to do. Bridgewater says he’s only 27 and has a lot of football left. Now that he had a market and better options he was finally able to land a starting job in what he deems a good spot for him. 
 

The Saints couldn’t offer Teddy a starting job. Payton said if Drew wants to come back it’s his job. Once Drew made his decision, the decision was made for Teddy. 
 

And no we weren’t bidding against ourselves. They didn’t even think Teddy was a realistic option because until Brady chose Tampa, Teddy was their number 1 target. Arians loves Teddy. Patriots were also rumored to be in on Teddy. Which makes sense, Teddy fits exactly what Bill looks for in a QB. As showed above, Chicago was in as well.