If Bridgwater is anythign less than elite, the front office screwed up

[Chief Keek]

Teddy isn't the permanent solution, he'll be a good mentor for whoever gets drafted next year. Hopefully it's Lawrence. Teddy just has the advantage of already knowing the system and Brady wanted him. That doesn't change the fact that he's been average his entire career and I don't see that changing now that he's surrounded by less talent.

[Madwolf]

27 minutes ago, Waldo said:

It was called Delhome for a few years here. 2003 was real fun but we lost on the JAG and good D to win the title and then kept trying but had a QB that didn't average more than 250 yards and a TD a game....Purgatory exists and I don't want to go back no matter how awesome of a human being the JAG QB is. We don't have that D right now, or Oline to be honest. Ted last year on the Saints had 277 yards a game and 1.8 TDs....on the Saints.

I agree with you to a point. We were in purgatory because we passed up opportunity after opportunity to get a better replacement for Delhomme, not because we couldn't lose good enough to find one.

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, Chief Keek said:

Teddy isn't the permanent solution, he'll be a good mentor for whoever gets drafted next year. Hopefully it's Lawrence. Teddy just has the advantage of already knowing the system and Brady wanted him. That doesn't change the fact that he's been average his entire career and I don't see that changing now that he's surrounded by less talent.

Pretty much this. Seems like a really poor investment of $20M per season but hey it ain't my money.

[Waldo]

1 minute ago, Madwolf said:

I agree with you to a point. We were in purgatory because we passed up opportunity after opportunity to get a better replacement for Delhomme, not because we couldn't lose good enough to find one.

That's it. I really don't want to debate if we could have drafted great QBs in those years, too lazy and there were some dark years in that time frame I don't want to revisit. We did miss out on opportunities because we were not 2010 bad and because Jake was stable but not great the staff never felt like they had or wanted to make a change. That is purgatory to me. Trying to lose would be worse and more like, i don't know, the 3rd level of hell? 

[CanadianCat]

32 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

 11-5 and 13-3 over the last two seasons.  I'll take that. That would be the best ever back to back seasons for the Panthers.

 

Right but I would argue that the QB is their weakest roster position and as soon as his rookie contract is up they team will get blown up. 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

44 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

I don't think anyone could've predicted Winston signing for basically vet minimum...he clearly left quite a bit of money on the table with the objective of focusing on development under a coach/QB who could maximize this development, meaning he never would've signed here.

Dalton was still with the Bengals when FA began, meaning he wasn't an option either unless we just wanted to completely neglect the QB position in hopes that the Bengals would cut him later and that he would've signed here for extremely cheap...so he wasn't a realistic option.

Cam....um yeah....enough said.

In hindsight?  Yeah, I would've taken Jameis or Dalton at a fraction of what we paid Bridgewater, but those weren't realistic options at the time, nor would they likely have been options even if we waited to address QB.

Rolling with Grier?  That basically would've sent the message to our entire team that we were tanking...which would have established a losing culture for a brand new head coach.  Good luck getting guys to respect and play for Rhule if that was how he chose to kick off his coaching career.  "Hey guys...all I ask is for you to throw away one or two years of your career in this extremely violent sport where one snap could end your entire career.  Tank for Trevor babyyyy!!!".

They replaced Cam Newton with a guy who has a shredded knee and has never thrown more than 14 Tds in a season. I'd say that message being sent is still pretty clear

[Julio]

1 minute ago, Mr Mojo Risin said:

They replaced Cam Newton with a guy who has never thrown more than 14 Tds in a season. I'd say that message being sent is still pretty clear

They replaced *an obviously injured* Cam Newton. I don’t like the way people make this argument seem like we replaced a 100% healthy Cam. He’s not, and many other teams seem to think so as he hasn’t been signed yet. Teddy was the right choice to introduce a new offensive system to this team.

[CanadianCat]

12 minutes ago, Madwolf said:

I agree with you to a point. We were in purgatory because we passed up opportunity after opportunity to get a better replacement for Delhomme, not because we couldn't lose good enough to find one.

We did draft Jimmy...

I was excited about him when we drafted him - I felt like we got a steal. Turns out he was not good but going into the draft he was a highly ranked player. 

So I agree that the plan was not to tank the roster was just not good enough to win. If that happens to us I'm fine with it. I just disagree with the notion of wanting to do that intentionally. 

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

Right but I would argue that the QB is their weakest roster position and as soon as his rookie contract is up they team will get blown up. 

They re-signed him long-term last year. He's signed through 2024.

And actually I was off on that record. They were 9-7 last year. Still, that's three straight winning seasons when the Panthers are still looking for our first back to back.

I didn't think Goff was worth what they paid him and I'm curious to see if paying him real money is going to be detrimental to their team moving forward. You can win big with a Goff type QB on a cheap rookie deal, but it's a much tougher bargain when you're paying him elite QB money.

[Madwolf]

3 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

We did draft Jimmy...

I was excited about him when we drafted him - I felt like we got a steal. Turns out he was not good but going into the draft he was a highly ranked player. 

So I agree that the plan was not to tank the roster was just not good enough to win. If that happens to us I'm fine with it. I just disagree with the notion of wanting to do that intentionally. 

We drafted Jimmy after Delhomme was in clear decline. I also felt like Jimmy had a TON of red flags. He rode the "I'm a Notre Dame QB" wagon super hard in the hype department.

[LinvilleGorge]

Drafting Jimmy ultimately netted us Cam so I'm alright with it. That's a damn good Hurney 2nd rounder all things considered.

[Madwolf]

7 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Drafting Jimmy ultimately netted us Cam so I'm alright with it. That's a damn good Hurney 2nd rounder all things considered.

Watching Hurney draft QBs was always super nuts. It's amazing how someone can be so incredibly bad at finding talent at the QB position. I realize your chances are pretty low outside of the 1st round, but my god he couldn't even find backup quality players. Matt Moore is the only guy that springs to mind as a guy who worked out to be a quality backup QB in the NFL, and I'm almost certain he was an UDFA.

You look at the guys he drafted and it's head scratchingly bad. The first I remember is LeFors, who played for Louisville, and doesn't have a single NFL stat line. Clausen, who was horrible. Armanti Edwards, which we made into a failed WR. And then we have Grier, who just showed 0 promise to me last year and we drafted him earlier than many thought he would go.

I mean, if you want to feel good about Teddy, the best thing he has going for him playing for the Panthers is that Hurney didn't draft him.

[MasterAwesome]

52 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

 11-5 and 13-3 over the last two seasons.  I'll take that. That would be the best ever back to back seasons for the Panthers.

 

That #1 QB got them to 4-12 his rookie season...with Goff going 0-7 in his 7 starts.  I think you're talking about the McVay hire that got them to 11-5 and 13-3 in back-to-back seasons.

Not sure the Rams' model is a good success story for you to hang your hat on...would we be happy with back-to-back playoffs followed by a clear downward trajectory?  Rams missed the playoffs and looked very mediocre last year...I thought we didn't want to settle for mediocrity here.  They also pulled off lots of trades and big FA signings to maximize their chances in a short window.  That #1 overall pick got them 3 points in the Super Bowl and now the Rams are looking like they're falling back into mediocrity.

[Madwolf]

I will say I think the Ram's had some success thanks to having a QB on a rookie contract that they were able to use to build a temporary wealth of talent around, and now that's falling apart because they robbed Peter to pay Paul. I don't think it's because Goff was amazing.