Long-time, Hurney hater here. but...

[Toomers]

33 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Just because you’re throwing out a bunch of facts does not mean you’re making a good, coherent argument. That’s like if I said “Hurney drafted more all-pros in the first round than any other GM, therefore he’s the best GM in the league”. Your conclusion must logically follow your premises, otherwise you get laughably stupid non sequiturs like “No one hired Marty after he was fired, therefore he is a bad GM”.

Actually, you couldn’t have brought up anything better to prove my point. If GMs are evaluated as completely autonomous individuals rather than as part of a cohesive unit including the coach and owner, then why did Gettleman do relatively well here and has been a disaster in NY? Surely Gettleman should’ve been killing it up in NY if good GM = good record, no?
 

I’ve already said Hurney + Ron was a bad combo and a change had to be made. The owner agreed, and he decided that Ron was the bad egg in that relationship. It’s possible that Hurney + Rhule could be a good combo. All I know is that if the Panthers fire Hurney, I’ll move on seamlessly and support the new guy...whereas you’re still in here getting worked up anytime anyone criticizes the GM from three years ago lol. Which one is more pathetic? And that’s not even factoring in your age and the fact that you’re not even a Panthers fan...if I spend my days at 50+ alone posting furiously on a message board of a team I don’t even support, then damn I took a wrong turn somewhere in my life. So I’m genuinely sorry...reach out in the DMs if you ever wanna talk. I’m here for you.

  It’s not “like” anything. When they start awarding trophies and playoff spots for “drafting” It might be “like” something. But wins are relevant. That’s it. So let’s answer the actual question? Why was another GM successful where Marty is a failure? How is no back to back winning seasons.a knock against DG, but 6 straight losing seasons mean nothing against Hurney? And that’s what you’re sticking with? Sure that makes sense. 
 

 The Giants were the 2nd worst team in the NFL. The Panthers were 11-5 and a playoff appearance(4th in 5 years). And Hurney could only win 3 more games in two years. Just a little context to it. But if you are so confident DG sux, take the bet. You brought up the comparison. I’m game. 
 

   Alone? LOL. How sad is your life that you keep trying to tell me how I live. I’m at my lake house watching my son and his family ride jet skis. It doesn’t take long to shoot your excuses to hell. Light work. You and your husband are welcome anytime. Bring your own floaties. Just don’t take a wrong turn picking up your Uber customers. 

[carpanfan96]

11 hours ago, Waldo said:

Look at 2010 and see a Hurney draft. Lame duck coach and he had backing of the owner, he was completely in charge that year. Hardy was the highlight of that draft. Even when MH convinced Rivera to want Jackson, we ended up with a small but fast CB with more personality than skill. Now the CBs we are getting are all long and lanky with speed. There is nothing from this draft with MH fingerprints on them, not that I can see (Edit: That trade. Dude loves him some moves up, this year looks like it might actually finally be worth it). It looks like he was given a shopping list and went to the store. Even Brown is a DT that is not a MH guy. Look at every DT MH has taken. Except for Jenkins in 2001 (19 years ago), they were all duds and drafted after the 3rd. Safety is more of the same. 

Did he contribute? Probably but it looks like the push in this draft came from Rhule which is why it's looking promising. Last year was depressing watching us take Little and Grier, this year we took guys with upside. The difference? The coach. Looks like MH really just does mostly what he is told for good or for bad.

Person said Rhule wanted to move back from 7 and Hurney said nope, Brown is the pick. Hurney hired the coach and will hire the assistant gm. He's in control, been saying that from the start. Did he listen to his coaches, of course he did. He usually does

[MasterAwesome]

1 hour ago, Toomers said:

  It’s not “like” anything. When they start awarding trophies and playoff spots for “drafting” It might be “like” something. But wins are relevant. That’s it. So let’s answer the actual question? Why was another GM successful where Marty is a failure? How is no back to back winning seasons.a knock against DG, but 6 straight losing seasons mean nothing against Hurney? And that’s what you’re sticking with? Sure that makes sense. 
 

 The Giants were the 2nd worst team in the NFL. The Panthers were 11-5 and a playoff appearance(4th in 5 years). And Hurney could only win 3 more games in two years. Just a little context to it. But if you are so confident DG sux, take the bet. You brought up the comparison. I’m game. 
 

   Alone? LOL. How sad is your life that you keep trying to tell me how I live. I’m at my lake house watching my son and his family ride jet skis. It doesn’t take long to shoot your excuses to hell. Light work. You and your husband are welcome anytime. Bring your own floaties. Just don’t take a wrong turn picking up your Uber customers. 

Oh gosh that’s even more sad...your family is out enjoying themselves while you’re alienated on your phone furiously arguing with people over the internet on the message board of a team you don’t even support.

”Dad, come join us on the jet ski! It’s beautiful!”

”Not now son...this scumbag MasterAwesome just responded to my post. I’m gonna get him this time...”

Anyways, thanks for the laugh. Onto the substantive stuff:

If wins are all that matter, then Marty has been a better GM than Gettleman the past two seasons...? Do you agree with that or not? I imagine you don’t, considering you’re making lots of excuses for why wins/losses don’t matter when it comes to Gettleman and the Giants. You’re constantly subverting your own logic to suit whatever narrative you’re spinning.

The Panthers were technically 6-10 with a top 10 pick when Marty took over...sorry, not 11-5 and in the playoffs. Is that inaccurate? FACTS, amirite? There you go selectively applying subjective nuance again, when it suits you...meanwhile I’m just out here spitting straight facts yo. Let me guess, Gettleman ran the draft? Too bad they don’t award trophies for the draft, it’s all about wins/losses for the GM. It’s fun when I don’t even have to make any original arguments, you’re making them for me.

Speaking of which...I wasn’t actually saying Hurney is the best GM cause he hits on more first round picks than anyone else...I used that as an example of how “stating facts” does not equate to making a coherent argument. Sounds like you agree...glad I could clear that up.

I know it’s easier to argue the straw man that I think Hurney has some amazing track record...but I don’t, it’s actually quite awful. My argument is that people should be focusing more on the GM + Coach combo (plus owner to a lesser extent) rather than assessing them as individuals, considering their job duties are so intertwined and dependent on one another. I’m not hyper-critical of Marty’s draft history when it came to Ron and Fox considering he obviously got a lot of input from those coaches who were largely considered piss-poor talent evaluators. How much more obvious can it be than Hurney acquiring 3 prototypical 3-4 OLBs in one offseason, immediately after Ron said he was changing the defense to a 3-4? Anyone who thinks the GM routinely overrules the coaches on personnel decisions is incredibly naive.

Did Hurney + Fox suck? Yep.

Did Hurney + Ron suck? Yep.

Does Hurney + Rhule suck? TBD.

You turned this into a Hurney vs. Gettleman thing for the thousandth time cause you got some serious insecurities, and frankly it’s weird as hell. Congrats on outing yourself as homophobic by the way...you’re really bringing the old grumpy white man stereotype full circle.  The way you flaunt your homophobia so openly and proudly makes me think maybe you belong more in the Tinderbox. I really hope you didn’t instill these kinds of values in your kid.

[RASTAN66]

Both of you cut it out.

[Tinamedina]

17 hours ago, MHS831 said:

This is a great opportunity for you to explain how you know the inside workings of the organization.  Tell us how this all went down. Now if this is merely your opinion,  say that too.

Nope. I'll just give you common sense instead.  Hurney has been OFF the last 6 7 8 ...FOREVER lol. Now that Matt Rhule and Joe Brady are here, he magically has GM skills? No, what you're seeing is Rhule and Brady making the calls. Also ,that assistant that Tepper hired to "help" Hurney aka, the guy whose calling the shots along with Rhule and Brady.

 

Hurney is just a mascot at this point.

[Fox007]

The Owner cut himself off when talking about Hurney so he wouldn't totally poo on him...rofl like we JR you can choose to see what's really there or you can keep your head in the sand but this is the least input Hurney ever had in any draft to date. Better stated....more people are giving input which a long with Teppers personality drown out Hurney more than ever. When he isnt' retained act all surprised pleased....

[carpanfan96]

2 hours ago, Tinamedina said:

Nope. I'll just give you common sense instead.  Hurney has been OFF the last 6 7 8 ...FOREVER lol. Now that Matt Rhule and Joe Brady are here, he magically has GM skills? No, what you're seeing is Rhule and Brady making the calls. Also ,that assistant that Tepper hired to "help" Hurney aka, the guy whose calling the shots along with Rhule and Brady.

 

Hurney is just a mascot at this point.

Person said in his Radio interview that Hurney nixed a trade back that Rhule wanted but Hurney took Brown instead. Like it or not Tepper came out and said it, Hurney hired Rhule and will hire the assistant gm. He's in control of the team. 

[Tinamedina]

5 hours ago, carpanfan96 said:

Person said in his Radio interview that Hurney nixed a trade back that Rhule wanted but Hurney took Brown instead. Like it or not Tepper came out and said it, Hurney hired Rhule and will hire the assistant gm. He's in control of the team. 

Also said they were keeping cam.

 

It's not the words, it's the actions.

[carpanfan96]

1 hour ago, Tinamedina said:

Also said they were keeping cam.

 

It's not the words, it's the actions.

Actions are that Brown is a Panther and the team didn't trade back from 7 but they did trade up in the 2nd giving away picks when Rhule wanted to acquire more. 

[Castavar]

19 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Here is the problem. Tepper hasn't been here a long time so he doesn't care what happened a LONG time ago. Simply since he bought it. So this is actually the first year with Rhule which is Tepper's guy. He is looking at Hurney and knows he isn't the long term answer but can be useful while we grrom his successor.

So you would extend him after this draft then?

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, Castavar said:

So you would extend him after this draft then?

At the end of his contract year if he does well , yeah. Ptobably on a 2 year deal nothing guarantee so you can dump him anytime. 

[Castavar]

5 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

At the end of his contract year if he does well , yeah. Ptobably on a 2 year deal nothing guarantee so you can dump him anytime. 

I wouldn't mind extending him to stay within our organization at some capacity, but as GM? No. Obviously we needed Hurney for this draft, because he already did all the scouting throughout the season and we would have been behind had we fired him last season. But we need to get our new GM in within this next year, or else our rebuilding process will take even longer, and extending Hurney as the main dog (no matter how short of duration) will hinder the process. The main reason is because even though Hurney might not be calling the full shots anymore, he still has that GM title and that doesn't sit well with potential future candidates (that's why Philly was able to deny our request for Andrew Berry).

 

[RASTAN66]

On 5/3/2020 at 8:29 AM, carpanfan96 said:

Person said in his Radio interview that Hurney nixed a trade back that Rhule wanted but Hurney took Brown instead. Like it or not Tepper came out and said it, Hurney hired Rhule and will hire the assistant gm. He's in control of the team. 

Person said Kestenbaum was a real threat to buy the team and move it to Canada --- he don't know jack.

No way the scenario you describe took place.

[MHS831]

15 hours ago, Tinamedina said:

Nope. I'll just give you common sense instead.  Hurney has been OFF the last 6 7 8 ...FOREVER lol. Now that Matt Rhule and Joe Brady are here, he magically has GM skills? No, what you're seeing is Rhule and Brady making the calls. Also ,that assistant that Tepper hired to "help" Hurney aka, the guy whose calling the shots along with Rhule and Brady.

 

Hurney is just a mascot at this point.

Thanks for that big ole bowl of self-proclaimed common sense.  First of all, if you want to share common sense with someone, don't exaggerate and place words in the opposition's mouth so you can argue against that point.  Did anyone ever say that Marty "magically has GM skills?"  Only you.  So you go from common sense to fantasy in your attempt to explain how logical you are?  Since nobody said what you present, I cannot begin to understand your points for the rest.

You want to focus on Marty only--how he "magically acquired GM skills" and you do not understand the inner workings of the organization--you are speculating.  We are not talking about Super Marty-o, a sudden incarnation of a supreme GM (magically speaking), we are talking about the chemistry of several people in the front office that complement Marty better.  A combination of talents and support--chemistry.  A better combination of skills to achieve the objectives.   Ryan Tanneyhill was bad in Miami, and he just got an extension in Tennessee.  Did he magically become a QB all of the sudden?  His supporting cast changed.  Same with Marty.

Finally, your common sense (Hurney is a mascot) was just supported by an article that said the people you said were running the draft were overruled by the mascot in the first round concerning a trade. A mascot made the first round pick and refused a trade that the head coach wanted.  I am not sure that common sense is going to work very well.