Long-time, Hurney hater here. but...

[Basbear]

8 hours ago, Toomers said:

  Steelers fans don’t have to focus on the GMs specific duties. One losing season in 20 years will build enough confidence to miss some picks. After which they went 15-1 and then won a SB when Ben was far from elite. The GM has never put a team together that earned a top 10 pick. Hurney has produced 3 top(or bottom) 10  seasons, in his last 5. That’s pathetic. 
 

 And Newsome won a SB with Trent Dilfer. Along with Flacco never being elite, that theory is flawed. 

  

Ben still covered up a many a miss, he didnt fall off a cliff in talent terms either. Elite to great still covers plenty. Trent Dilter had a top 5 all-time defense, those can do wonders too. That is 11 vs just 1, QB still has the biggest impact by himself across all sports. If Trent was a turnover machine, no Superbowl. NFL has made it harder each year for teams to form one. Joe Flacco was elite when it counted- contract years and playoffs. Along with having a great 11 person defensive. 

 

[Toomers]

4 minutes ago, Basbear said:

Ben still covered up a many a miss, he didnt fall off a cliff in talent terms either. Elite to great still covers plenty. Trent Dilter had a top 5 all-time defense, those can do wonders too. That is 11 vs just 1, QB still has the biggest impact by himself across all sports. If Trent was a turnover machine, no Superbowl. NFL has made it harder each year for teams to form one. Joe Flacco was elite when it counted- contract years and playoffs. Along with having a great 11 person defensive. 

 

 What are you talking about Ben falling off a cliff talent-wise. Ben was carried to his 1st SB win and he had the best DEFENSE in the league in 2008. Are we forgetting his numerous injuries they played through and still managed winning seasons. Don’t see how any of that pertains to decking skills in his first five years. 
 

    Who put that Dilfer team together? Newsome. And Flacco has a good two months. The Ravens were ready to bench him mid-season, and he reverted back to average before the ink was dry. So he wasn’t hiding anything. Comparing anything Hurney has done to these two GMs is borderline insulting. 

[MasterAwesome]

22 minutes ago, Toomers said:

  It could have something to do with the FACT that another GM went 51-28-1 with 4 playoff appearances withe same shitty owner and coach. More playoff teams for the franchise than the others 13 years combined  So what happened? Do Fox, Rivera, JR get all the credit for any good moves that Hurney supposedly made? All his picks...good and bad. Where’s the line? 
 

   That shitty coach got another job rather quickly. How long did it take for another team to hire Hurney? Still waiting on that. New owner for two years and the team has turned into a dumpster fire. But it’s not his fault. It’s Fox, or JR, or whoever’s turn it is to be scapegoat. 

Oh right...the same GM that still failed to have back-to-back winning seasons. What was that about this franchise “settling for mediocrity”? Nothing screams mediocre like alternating winning and losing seasons.

If we’re a dumpster fire, then what would you call the present day Giants under Gettleman? Lol.

[Basbear]

30 minutes ago, Toomers said:

 What are you talking about Ben falling off a cliff talent-wise. Ben was carried to his 1st SB win and he had the best DEFENSE in the league in 2008. Are we forgetting his numerous injuries they played through and still managed winning seasons. Don’t see how any of that pertains to decking skills in his first five years. 
 

    Who put that Dilfer team together? Newsome. And Flacco has a good two months. The Ravens were ready to bench him mid-season, and he reverted back to average before the ink was dry. So he wasn’t hiding anything. Comparing anything Hurney has done to these two GMs is borderline insulting. 

I thought you where talking about Ben not be elite. I simply said very good Ben covered up lots of drafting mistakes too. If a team gos 19-0 and waived the whole draft class that year, its still awful drafting. Bill has been poorly drafting for years too, but still winning. No question drafting late is different than top ten each round. Steelers did great in that one year the whole class was awful, 2017 I think. 

Newsome did put all those teams together and he drafted poorly 2009-2013. Again you can win and draft poorly, plenty of example to pick form. 

[Toomers]

Just now, MasterAwesome said:

Oh right...the same GM that still failed to have back-to-back winning seasons. What was that about this franchise “settling for mediocrity”? Nothing screams mediocre like alternating winning and losing seasons.

If we’re a dumpster fire, then what would you call the present day Giants under Gettleman? Lol.

 That’s the best you got? The back to back winning seasons cop out....LOL. How about back to back losing seasons? Because the current one has 6 in a row and counting. He has a lot of work to do to get to mediocre? That’s so much better than making the playoffs 80% of the time. And by the way, the year they didn’t go to the playoffs.was all  on the shitty owner and shorty coach. Wow. That is easy to just say something and act like it’s true. 
 

   Who knows? But I’ll bet you anything, money, username, whatever you want that the Giants won more games than the Panthers this year. Anytime you want to compare the Giants past two drafts, and the Panthers, we can do that to.or maybe tell me where that line is for blame/credit. 

[panthers55]

On 4/29/2020 at 3:57 PM, Castavar said:

Extend him after ONE good complete draft? That would be such a Panthers thing to do. History speaks for itself, Hurney has failed to put together a complete team for a LONG time now.

Here is the problem. Tepper hasn't been here a long time so he doesn't care what happened a LONG time ago. Simply since he bought it. So this is actually the first year with Rhule which is Tepper's guy. He is looking at Hurney and knows he isn't the long term answer but can be useful while we grrom his successor.

[Toomers]

7 minutes ago, Basbear said:

I thought you where talking about Ben not be elite. I simply said very good Ben covered up lots of drafting mistakes too. If a team gos 19-0 and waived the whole draft class that year, its still a awful drafting. Bill has been poorly drafting for years too, but still winning. No question drafting late is different than top ten each round. Steelers did great in that one year the whole class was awful, 2017 I think. 

Newsome did put all those teams together and he drafted poorly 2009-2013. Again you can win and draft poorly, plenty of example to pick form. 

And as I’ve clearly shown, it was much more than having a QB masking mistakes. You posfed this in a thread about Hurney like it justifies his drafts. These other GMs can build complete, consistent winners as proven over 20-25 years. Which is why fans don’t have to like every pick but you won’t find any of them calling for their jobs. 

 

   
 

 

[MasterAwesome]

2 minutes ago, Toomers said:

 That’s the best you got? The back to back winning seasons cop out....LOL. How about back to back losing seasons? Because the current one has 6 in a row and counting. He has a lot of work to do to get to mediocre? That’s so much better than making the playoffs 80% of the time. And by the way, the year they didn’t go to the playoffs.was all  on the shitty owner and shorty coach. Wow. That is easy to just say something and act like it’s true. 
 

   Who knows? But I’ll bet you anything, money, username, whatever you want that the Giants won more games than the Panthers this year. Anytime you want to compare the Giants past two drafts, and the Panthers, we can do that to.or maybe tell me where that line is for blame/credit. 

Back-to-back winning seasons is a pretty important determinant of sustained success...I’m sorry that you want to throw it out cause it doesn’t support your narrative LOL. It’s actually pretty explainable considering Gettleman’s penchant for shitty drafting but ability to find successful bargain bin FAs for one-year contracts. That’s a perfect recipe for patchwork winning seasons with zero long-term sustainability.

What’s a copout is “How many teams wanted to hire Hurney after he got fired” lol, such a silly metric to thump your chest about. Tsk tsk...I expected better from someone who played D3 football 30 years ago.

It’s hilariously predictable watching you swoop in anytime anyone says anything negative about Gettleman. He’s like your bat signal...”anyone heard from Toomers? No? Hold on, I’ll go start a thread on Hurney vs. Gettleman”.

[Basbear]

2 minutes ago, Toomers said:

And as I’ve clearly shown, it was much more than having a QB masking mistakes. You posfed this in a thread about Hurney like it justifies his drafts. These other GMs can build complete, consistent winners as proven over 20-25 years. Which is why fans don’t have to like every pick but you won’t find any of them calling for their jobs. 

 

   
 

 

I said Steelers, Ravens and Pats have at times had awful classes and you made part of my point saying they are winning mainly. Of course its more than just QB, just thats the main reason. Plus I dont want Marty, just understand other successful teams were drafting poor during that period. Steelers changed form a run first/defensive grinder to a Ben throwing team. Again thats another good example, unless you want to go back 20-50 years. I understand both points about Marty and if I know a few facts that can be added, I did.  

[Toomers]

4 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Back-to-back winning seasons is a pretty important determinant of sustained success...I’m sorry that you want to throw it out cause it doesn’t support your narrative LOL. It’s actually pretty explainable considering Gettleman’s penchant for shitty drafting but ability to find successful bargain bin FAs for one-year contracts. That’s a perfect recipe for patchwork winning seasons with zero long-term sustainability.

What’s a copout is “How many teams wanted to hire Hurney after he got fired” lol, such a silly metric to thump your chest about. Tsk tsk...I expected better from someone who played D3 football 30 years ago.

It’s hilariously predictable watching you swoop in anytime anyone says anything negative about Gettleman. He’s like your bat signal...”anyone heard from Toomers? No? Hold on, I’ll go start a thread on Hurney vs. Gettleman”.

  So what does 6 straight non-winning seasons say about the consistency of a franchise? And if not doing it in 5 years is so bad, what does it say about 13 years? You really couldn’t have brought up anything better to prove my point. Explain the reasoning behind 3 of 5 is.worse than 3 for 13. Let’s hear the “narrative” you got for this? 
 

    What better indicator of what actual NFL people think of his ability? Truth hurts. 
 

   Sorry you can’t handle facts. Anything I’ve said not true? Nope. Where do you want to move the goalposts to now? Put some money(or anything) on the line. Coming from someone who never wore a helmet on any level, this is all a compliment. Want to tell me about the highlight of my life again? That was fun. Almost as much fun as you getting triggered in any Hurney thread. Shall we go to the tape? 

[RASTAN66]

1 hour ago, MasterAwesome said:

Huddle logic...

Huddle: “JR was a shitty owner, Fox was a shitty coach, Rivera was a shitty coach. JR was constantly meddling in operational affairs, Rivera and Fox were terrible at developing players, instead opting to let rookies rot on the bench and playing vets instead. Their conservative game management style constantly saw us squandering big leads late in the game”.

Also Huddle: “Gosh why wasn’t Marty more successful?!”

The Post of the Year race is already over...

...dang.

[Mr. Scot]

2 hours ago, MasterAwesome said:

Huddle logic...

Huddle: “JR was a shitty owner, Fox was a shitty coach, Rivera was a shitty coach. JR was constantly meddling in operational affairs, Rivera and Fox were terrible at developing players, instead opting to let rookies rot on the bench and playing vets instead. Their conservative game management style constantly saw us squandering big leads late in the game”.

Also Huddle: “Gosh why wasn’t Marty more successful?!”

Well, if you wanna go that route...

“JR was a shitty owner, Fox was a shitty coach, Marty was a shitty GM. JR was constantly meddling in operational affairs, Marty was terrible at picking players, which forced Ron to make rookies rot on the bench and play vets instead. Their conservative game management style would have worked with better players”.

#everybodysfaultbutrons

Side Note: If back to back winning seasons are as big a deal as you say, when did Marty have them?

2 hours ago, Car123 said:

2002 - Turned a 1-15 team into a very competitive 7-9 team. Started learning how to win.

2003 - Super Bowl appearance 

2004 - Steve Smith, Stephen Davis, Kris Jenkins, DeShaun Foster. Literally our best players missed the majority of the season. Started 1-7, finished 7-9.

2005 - NFC Championship appearance

2006 - Bad season.

2007 - After a hot start, Delhomme went down and needed Tommy John surgery. Missed 13 games.

2008 - Great team. Would have gone to the super bowl if not for Delhomme’s injured arm.

2009 - Disappointing season. The end of Delhomme.

2010 - Terrible season. We desperately needed a franchise quarterback. Drafted the best quarterback from a poor class.

2011 - We found a franchise quarterback in Cam. Rarely do rookie quarterbacks lead their team to the playoffs.

2012 - Cam and Rivera still learning. Chud turned to poo. Rivera later transformed into Riverboat Ron. Annexation of Puerto Rico. We finished very strong that year. No surprise we made the playoffs the following season.

Simplified:

#everybody'sfaultbutmarty's

[MasterAwesome]

9 minutes ago, Toomers said:

  So what does 6 straight non-winning seasons say about the consistency of a franchise? And if not doing it in 5 years is so bad, what does it say about 13 years? You really couldn’t have brought up anything better to prove my point. Explain the reasoning behind 3 of 5 is.worse than 3 for 13. Let’s hear the “narrative” you got for this? 
 

    What better indicator of what actual NFL people think of his ability? Truth hurts. 
 

   Sorry you can’t handle facts. Anything I’ve said not true? Nope. Where do you want to move the goalposts to now? Put some money(or anything) on the line. Coming from someone who never wore a helmet on any level, this is all a compliment. Want to tell me about the highlight of my life again? That was fun. Almost as much fun as you getting triggered in any Hurney thread. Shall we go to the tape? 

Just because you’re throwing out a bunch of facts does not mean you’re making a good, coherent argument. That’s like if I said “Hurney drafted more all-pros in the first round than any other GM, therefore he’s the best GM in the league”. Your conclusion must logically follow your premises, otherwise you get laughably stupid non sequiturs like “No one hired Marty after he was fired, therefore he is a bad GM”.

Actually, you couldn’t have brought up anything better to prove my point. If GMs are evaluated as completely autonomous individuals rather than as part of a cohesive unit including the coach and owner, then why did Gettleman do relatively well here and has been a disaster in NY? Surely Gettleman should’ve been killing it up in NY if good GM = good record, no?
 

I’ve already said Hurney + Ron was a bad combo and a change had to be made. The owner agreed, and he decided that Ron was the bad egg in that relationship. It’s possible that Hurney + Rhule could be a good combo. All I know is that if the Panthers fire Hurney, I’ll move on seamlessly and support the new guy...whereas you’re still in here getting worked up anytime anyone criticizes the GM from three years ago lol. Which one is more pathetic? And that’s not even factoring in your age and the fact that you’re not even a Panthers fan...if I spend my days at 50+ alone posting furiously on a message board of a team I don’t even support, then damn I took a wrong turn somewhere in my life. So I’m genuinely sorry...reach out in the DMs if you ever wanna talk. I’m here for you.

[MasterAwesome]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Well, if you wanna go that route...

“JR was a shitty owner, Fox was a shitty coach, Marty was a shitty GM. JR was constantly meddling in operational affairs, Marty was terrible at picking players, which forced Ron to make rookies rot on the bench and play vets instead. Their conservative game management style would have worked with better players”.

#everybodysfaultbutrons

Side Note: If back to back winning seasons are as big a deal as you say, when did Marty have them?

Simplified:

#everybody'sfaultbutmarty's

You didn’t honestly type that thinking it was a good retort, did you? Unless you wanna go on the record now stating you were wrong about Ron all along and he was a great coach held back by a shitty GM. Otherwise, if you wanna engage in the most hardcore example of revisionism I’ve possibly ever seen on these boards, then all the power to you.