Long-time, Hurney hater here. but...

[Khyber53]

3 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I just pointed out the fallacy of your position, dude.

We had the same discussion with Rivera. You wanted to give him more time. I pointed out that he'd already had several years and we pretty much knew what he was. At this point, Hurney's had even more time than Rivera did.

And sorry, but a draft haul that a group of fans like a week later is not evidence that things have gotten better. You're going to find fans that loved the draft every single year, including some of the worst drafts we've had.

Offering forgiveness seventy times seven times is a good principal for personal relationships. For running a business (or a sports team)? Not so much.

Marty's had his chance...several of them, in fact. He doesn't need any more.

You might well be right, but my guy still has the job. In the meantime, I'm not bothered by it. In the meantime, you still are. And will be. 

 

[Smithers]

Half my family are Eagles fans, the other half Seahawks fans.  All of them constantly bitch about their mid to late round draft choices, sometimes even 1st rounder.  The hawks fans hated Penny in the 1st (and rightfully so).  Eagles fans are fuming over Hurts.  We have tunnel vision when it comes to our own picks-but trust me, most teams miss on their draft choices, esp rounds 2-7

[Mr. Scot]

On 5/1/2020 at 5:19 PM, Khyber53 said:

You might well be right, but my guy still has the job. In the meantime, I'm not bothered by it. In the meantime, you still are. And will be. 

So it's okay if we're losing as long as we're doing it with "your guy"? Okay.

"Bothered" in the sense that I believe my favorite football team has a sh-tty general manager and they could do better? Sure. It's not something I spend my days being upset about, but it does come up when I'm having a football conversation.

I'm also concerned that we don't have a good enough offensive line and that we really don't know whether our head coach is going to be very good or not.

We'll see.

[Shocker]

Marty interview where he said he has to trade every draft.  Yikes.

[Basbear]

1 hour ago, Smithers said:

Half my family are Eagles fans, the other half Seahawks fans.  All of them constantly bitch about their mid to late round draft choices, sometimes even 1st rounder.  The hawks fans hated Penny in the 1st (and rightfully so).  Eagles fans are fuming over Hurts.  We have tunnel vision when it comes to our own picks-but trust me, most teams miss on their draft choices, esp rounds 2-7

Its true. The steelers GM was talked about coming here, so I looked up his draft record....... I was very whellem'd. Look at Ozzie Newsome, who many call a draft god and form 2009-2013 its Marty-ish. I have learned long ago, elite QBs just do soo much. Like cover up for terrible draft classes. Ben, Prime Joe Flaco, Russ, Tom Brady etc ALL covered up those terrible draft classes FOR years. Still Marty has more issues than missing on rounds 2-7, his trading and free agent signing history is overall poor too. Even paying your own players, he seemed to always over-pay too. When was the last super bargain that worked out for Marty? Jakes first contract is the best I got.

This is something in Martys defense, he took over a 1-15 team and had them in the superbowl in two years. I do feel like jerry richardson put pressure on him and for a few of the mistakes played a role in them too. Example; forcing him to have back-to-back winning season at any cost. The Peppers handling was a giant fugup and it was made a LOT worse by the trade up for everette brown. 

Just like many things I do in life, I agree hes done better AND he needs to be replaced. 

[Peon Awesome]

More food for thought: Bill Belichick was 41-55 in his first 6 years as a head coach, with only 1 winning season in 6. Sometimes people get better. Sometimes people are at least partly the product of their circumstances. Is Marty actually a good gm who has been hampered by overbearing owners and coaches that don't know how to properly develop talent? Who the hell knows? But please stop pretending like wins and losses are the whole story. 

Addendum: I'm not going to defend Marty's first tenure. He made some indefensible decisions and was rightly fired. I'm just open to the idea he may have learned from those mistakes. The man's franchise qb got injured halfway through his first full season back and hasn't been healthy since and almost everyone has acknowledged that the head coach failed to maximize the team's talent. To pretend like neither of those factors are worth considering when evaluating the team's record in his 2nd stint is being unnecessarily dismissive. Seeing how he does with a healthy starting qb isn't giving him an egregiously long leash. Hell he's been 6-2 in that setting since his return. Or if you give him credit for that first season (which I don't necessarily but he did manage much of that offseason), 17-7.

[Tinamedina]

And the fact that yall think Hurney had anything to do with this draft. 

[MHS831]

16 hours ago, Zithers2 said:

The amount of people taking the bait on this draft class is depressing. Thirteen years, three playoff appearances. The dude is garbage fuging GM. Brown will probably pan out like every other first rounder he's had while everyone else flops and we'll toil in mediocrity until he's gone since we have too much high end talent but too much awful depth to be a serious contender or truly bad.

This is accurate, but the draft class has nothing to do with the inconsistency you mention.  This one feels different--and I will wager that in 4 years, 4 members of this draft class are starting.  I can see our first three picks starting and Robinson, and I feel good about Pride as insurance.  I never felt that before.  I hoped we would get a day 2 contributor.

But you are absolutely correct in noticing that missing on the draft on days 2 and 3 hurts you.  Not only does it leave you to finding overpriced free agents, but you usually have to pay for more players other teams did not think was worth what you have to pay.

Personally, I think any of us could have done the job Hurney has done---and I am not exaggerating.   Rhule, however, has made a reputation and career out of finding unloved players and giving them a home.   He knows how to find players that are overlooked or bad fits for others.  That is how I think we are better now.

[1of10Charnatives]

11 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

This is accurate, but the draft class has nothing to do with the inconsistency you mention.  This one feels different--and I will wager that in 4 years, 4 members of this draft class are starting.  I can see our first three picks starting and Robinson, and I feel good about Pride as insurance.  I never felt that before.  I hoped we would get a day 2 contributor.

But you are absolutely correct in noticing that missing on the draft on days 2 and 3 hurts you.  Not only does it leave you to finding overpriced free agents, but you usually have to pay for more players other teams did not think was worth what you have to pay.

Personally, I think any of us could have done the job Hurney has done---and I am not exaggerating.   Rhule, however, has made a reputation and career out of finding unloved players and giving them a home.   He knows how to find players that are overlooked or bad fits for others.  That is how I think we are better now.

I think one of the best ways to gauge that will be to watch closely the performance of younger players who were holdovers from the previous regime but have not lived up to expectations, particularly those we as fans felt Rivera was misusing or not giving an opportunity. If players such as Thomas, Armah, Bonnafonn etc begin to shine, that would endorse Rhule's reputation in this regard. If they do not, it could be seen as an indictment of it. If Rhule thought these players didn't have potential, he could always have replaced them. None of them carry significant costs or have long term ties to the organization that would make them hard to replace.

[1of10Charnatives]

1 hour ago, Tinamedina said:

And the fact that yall think Hurney had anything to do with this draft. 

I am neither tied to the notion nor disabused of it. What I am skeptical about is people who purport to know for certain who is calling the shots as if they have inside knowledge, or who do not lay out a clear, cogent, logical case for why they think the evidence suggests one way or the other. Disparaging others pure assumptions because they are not the same as your pure assumptions doesn't make you look smart. It makes you look arrogant.

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, Tinamedina said:

And the fact that yall think Hurney had anything to do with this draft. 

This is a great opportunity for you to explain how you know the inside workings of the organization.  Tell us how this all went down. Now if this is merely your opinion,  say that too.

[Ricky Spanish]

15 hours ago, Smithers said:

Half my family are Eagles fans, the other half Seahawks fans.  All of them constantly bitch about their mid to late round draft choices, sometimes even 1st rounder.  The hawks fans hated Penny in the 1st (and rightfully so).  Eagles fans are fuming over Hurts.  We have tunnel vision when it comes to our own picks-but trust me, most teams miss on their draft choices, esp rounds 2-7

If the ONLY thing we had to bitch about with Hurney was that he missed on draft picks then I'd say people are complaining too much but the fact of the matter is he hasn't put together a winning team since 2008, he fuged up so many contracts that put us in cap hell for years, traded away future draft capital for bust players that hurt us for years, and signs terrible vet FAs that are overpaid and underperform.

It's funny that the same people defending Hurney for only doing what his coaches ask would still poo on Gettleman when he had the same "inept" coach and still found the right JAGs that succeeded under Rivera. Gettleman went dumpster diving and we went to the playoffs 4/5 years. Hurney went out and splurged on overpriced vets and we get a top 10 pick. Maybe not being a yes man and actually having an understanding of the game on a fundamental level allows a GM to provide alternatives to a coach that might allow him to succeed.

Hurney is not a good GM and you people that still want to give him a chance after all these years of incompetence because we "could do worse" when we had a GM that had more success in a 5 year span than Hurney ever did infuriate me.

Get. Rid. Of. Him.

[Waldo]

41 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

This is a great opportunity for you to explain how you know the inside workings of the organization.  Tell us how this all went down. Now if this is merely your opinion,  say that too.

Look at 2010 and see a Hurney draft. Lame duck coach and he had backing of the owner, he was completely in charge that year. Hardy was the highlight of that draft. Even when MH convinced Rivera to want Jackson, we ended up with a small but fast CB with more personality than skill. Now the CBs we are getting are all long and lanky with speed. There is nothing from this draft with MH fingerprints on them, not that I can see (Edit: That trade. Dude loves him some moves up, this year looks like it might actually finally be worth it). It looks like he was given a shopping list and went to the store. Even Brown is a DT that is not a MH guy. Look at every DT MH has taken. Except for Jenkins in 2001 (19 years ago), they were all duds and drafted after the 3rd. Safety is more of the same. 

Did he contribute? Probably but it looks like the push in this draft came from Rhule which is why it's looking promising. Last year was depressing watching us take Little and Grier, this year we took guys with upside. The difference? The coach. Looks like MH really just does mostly what he is told for good or for bad.

[jfra78]

8 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Look at 2010 and see a Hurney draft. Lame duck coach and he had backing of the owner, he was completely in charge that year. Hardy was the highlight of that draft. Even when MH convinced Rivera to want Jackson, we ended up with a small but fast CB with more personality than skill. Now the CBs we are getting are all long and lanky with speed. There is nothing from this draft with MH fingerprints on them, not that I can see (Edit: That trade. Dude loves him some moves up, this year looks like it might actually finally be worth it). It looks like he was given a shopping list and went to the store. Even Brown is a DT that is not a MH guy. Look at every DT MH has taken. Except for Jenkins in 2001 (19 years ago), they were all duds and drafted after the 3rd. Safety is more of the same. 

Did he contribute? Probably but it looks like the push in this draft came from Rhule which is why it's looking promising. Last year was depressing watching us take Little and Grier, this year we took guys with upside. The difference? The coach. Looks like MH really just does mostly what he is told for good or for bad.

Yea, good GMs build teams in the coaches image. That's why the draft looks different, plain and simple