Most 1st Team All-Pros Drafted Since 2000

[TheMostInterestingMan]

1 minute ago, thefuzz said:

Recency bias is hurting you I think.

Last year we had 3 picks in the top 100.  One never see the field for us again, the other we traded up for and he's already picked up an alarming number of concussions, passed over on all of the interior offensive line talent, and drafted Burns...who may be able to play on the outside in the 43.

At the end of the day, we will likely leave last years draft with a couple of spot starters....if we are lucky.

Now we are switching back to a 43 so it limits 2 of our selections from a season ago, our interior O Line is still awful, we look to be the very worst team in our division. 

It's what Marty does.

 

I would argue to some extent that it’s not entirely his fault. He was doing the job he was asked to do. 
 

Donn’t get me wrong, I’ve never been a big Marty supporter. But if the coaching staff tells Marty to start planning the team around a 3-4 defense and then that staff is fired, how is that Marty’s fault? I still think Burns can be a great player in a 4-3 but if not, I can’t put that on Marty. At the time he was draft for a hybrid defense and Burns seemingly fit what we wanted to do perfectly.

Little also showed lots of promise when healthy. Unfortunately, he wasn’t healthy very much. That said, I don’t really know how one goes about scouting to predict future head trauma. I might be one of the few but I’m not writing Little off yet. As a rookie, he played very well when he didn’t have concussion issues. If healthy this season, he can still prove to be starting caliber 

[panthers55]

21 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Super Bowl wins aren't correlated to All Pro selections. The fact that we have zero is pretty solid evidence of that.

Super Bowl wins and winning seasons in general do have a lot to do with solid roster building, again not something you got a lot of under Hurney.

We certainly haven't won enough as a franchise given we haven't had back to back winning seasons in our history which surely extends beyond Hurney.

Personally I think there must be something to.our black cat mascot. 

[thefuzz]

Just now, MasterAwesome said:

Pretty sure the owner is the "Captain" in your analogy...you look to be blaming the First Mate (I think? I don't know boating terms very well).

People call Marty a "Yes man" for following the wishes of the owner, yet they blame him for all of his actions instead of the owner behind them, strangely.  Who's to say the owner doesn't hire another "Yes man" in his place?  If people hate Marty so much, how do you not argue he's a symptom of a larger disease?  Last I checked, we have never had a consistent winning program (or even back-to-back winning seasons) for the duration of our 25-year franchise...not even under Gettleman who is lauded by many here.  Sure sounds like the GM isn't the ultimate issue here.

The Captain is the one steering the ship...Marty.  If I were talking about the owner of the ship, I would have said owner, but they were back in their homeland making money off of all of the good or bad moves the Captain made.  (In the NFL you make money no matter how bad your Captain is, which is why Marty has stayed around)

And to your second point, pssssst...I blame the owner as well...but at least he got run out of here by the NFL.

1:  Marty never should have been able to hold his position the 1st go round as long as he did.  He torched this team.

2:  Marty never should have been brought back.

3:  Once Tepper bought the team, he should have cleaned house.  You are correct, there is a stench around the Panthers, and we did nothing to fix it.

4:  Once Tepper had enough incompetence, he fired the 1st mate, but again, not the Captain, keeping said stench around to make sure the new 1st mate could be made to be as smelly as we like it around here.

 

[MasterAwesome]

9 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Recency bias is hurting you I think.

Last year we had 3 picks in the top 100.  One may never see the field for us again, the other we traded up for and he's already picked up an alarming number of concussions, passed over on all of the interior offensive line talent, and drafted Burns...who may be able to play on the outside in the 43.

At the end of the day, we will likely leave last years draft with a couple of spot starters....if we are lucky.

Now we are switching back to a 43 so it limits 2 of our selections from a season ago, our interior O Line is still awful, we look to be the very worst team in our division. 

It's what Marty does.

 

Thanks for highlighting an interesting double standard.

2019: Ron announces we're switching to a 3-4 and we subsequently draft Burns and Miller, and sign Bruce Irvin from FA (all prototypical 3-4 OLBs). Somehow this draft is all Marty...Ron had nothing to do with it.

2020: We draft a Baylor guy in the 6th round and the consensus seems to be largely positive about the draft.  THIS DRAFT HAD RHULE'S FINGERPRINTS ALL OVER IT.

[thefuzz]

6 minutes ago, TheMostInterestingMan said:

I would argue to some extent that it’s not entirely his fault. He was doing the job he was asked to do. 
 

Donn’t get me wrong, I’ve never been a big Marty supporter. But if the coaching staff tells Marty to start planning the team around a 3-4 defense and then that staff is fired, how is that Marty’s fault? I still think Burns can be a great player in a 4-3 but if not, I can’t put that on Marty. At the time he was draft for a hybrid defense and Burns seemingly fit what we wanted to do perfectly.

Little also showed lots of promise when healthy. Unfortunately, he wasn’t healthy very much. That said, I don’t really know how one goes about scouting to predict future head trauma. I might be one of the few but I’m not writing Little off yet. As a rookie, he played very well when he didn’t have concussion issues. If healthy this season, he can still prove to be starting caliber 

If you are OK getting next to no contributions from last years draft class, while New Orleans keeps drafting circles around us, that's cool.  I simply don't believe that Burns can be a standout 43 player.  Could he surprise me?  Sure, and I welcome it.  Miller isn't going to have a job.  Will may never see the field for us.  Little may be something, but the new staff has already talked about moving him to G....

As to whose fault it is that this team is so bad?  I can only look to 1 person that is still in the building after all these years of inconsistency and losing.  Marty Hurney.

[panthers55]

26 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

For the "it's all about wins and losses" crowd...you realize the job of EVERY member of the organization is to win games, right?  So if you simply look at the big picture of wins/losses, how do you even begin to evaluate and separate the individual performances of GMs, coaches, quarterbacks, receivers, etc.?  You could have a HOF coach and a trash GM and it'd be impossible to separate one's success from the other's failures by your logic, because it's all about wins/losses, right?  No one is evaluated for their individual responsibilities within that larger ultimate goal of winning games...?

So if you had three consecutive losing seasons with the same GM, coaches, roster, etc. then do we fire/cut every single person and start over?  No...we actually apply nuance and evaluate individual performances.  We wouldn't cut a 3-time MVP quarterback because he hasn't taken us to the playoffs, even though his job is to win games and ultimately a Super Bowl.  Why is it different for the GM?  You can make the argument that he is not good at his individual responsibilities, but this is for those "It's about wins and losses, bruh" crowd.  Where do you draw the line if everyone's responsibility is to win? Y'all sound like TheRed when people dared praise CMC for his individual season and he just kept responding with "but 5-11 tho".  Cut that loser CMC!!!

There were a whole bunch of folks who wanted to blow everything up and start all over. I am with you that just looking at wins and losses and nothing else is myopic but at the end of the day the guys in charge will get the blame or credit based on wins and losses  no matter how well they actually did their job.

[Paintballr]

51 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Then why doesn't New England lead the list by 10 or 20 players if this theory held any water.

I mean they are only behind us by 1 in the list, I can look and see how many all pros they have from 2000-2009 and do the same break down 

[panthers55]

Just now, Paintballr said:

I mean they are only behind us by 1 in the list, I can look and see how many all pros they have from 2000-2009 and do the same break down 

You miss the point. If your theory held water they should be miles ahead of everyone given they have had way more Superbowl appearances and wins than anyone else not in second place 

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, MasterAwesome said:

Thanks for highlighting an interesting double standard.

2019: Ron announces we're switching to a 3-4 and we subsequently draft Burns and Miller, and sign Bruce Irvin from FA (all prototypical 3-4 OLBs). Somehow this draft is all Marty...Ron had nothing to do with it.

2020: We draft a Baylor guy in the 6th round and the consensus seems to be largely positive about the draft.  THIS DRAFT HAD RHULE'S FINGERPRINTS ALL OVER IT.

Tepper is the idiot for not poo canning Ron and Marty at the same time.  That's all on him.

When you have a GM and a HC both on the hot seat, you start making dumb decisions to keep your jobs...that's what happened.  We will pay the price for a while.

[MasterAwesome]

5 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

The Captain is the one steering the ship...Marty.  If I were talking about the owner of the ship, I would have said owner, but they were back in their homeland making money off of all of the good or bad moves the Captain made.  (In the NFL you make money no matter how bad your Captain is, which is why Marty has stayed around)

And to your second point, pssssst...I blame the owner as well...but at least he got run out of here by the NFL.

1:  Marty never should have been able to hold his position the 1st go round as long as he did.  He torched this team.

2:  Marty never should have been brought back.

3:  Once Tepper bought the team, he should have cleaned house.  You are correct, there is a stench around the Panthers, and we did nothing to fix it.

4:  Once Tepper had enough incompetence, he fired the 1st mate, but again, not the Captain, keeping said stench around to make sure the new 1st mate could be made to be as smelly as we like it around here.

 

And what does that tell you that this same blatantly incompetent GM has been kept across two different ownerships?

To me, it's one of three things:

A) He's more knowledgable and competent than he gets credit for.

B) He's truly a "Yes man", and both owners were fairly meddling and simply wanted someone to carry out their vision.

C) His days are numbered and Tepper simply needed time to find the right replacement.

B is most likely to me...in which case, like I said, he's a symptom of a broader disease and all this hatred towards Hurney is misplaced.

[electro's horse]

also fun reminder that hurney is a sex pest

[panthers55]

9 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Tepper is the idiot for not poo canning Ron and Marty at the same time.  That's all on him.

When you have a GM and a HC both on the hot seat, you start making dumb decisions to keep your jobs...that's what happened.  We will pay the price for a while.

So far this year it looks like keeping Hurney to draft was a great idea. 

[Car123]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

Then why doesn't New England lead the list by 10 or 20 players if this theory held any water.

The Patriots are cheaters.

[TheMostInterestingMan]

18 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

If you are OK getting next to no contributions from last years draft class, while New Orleans keeps drafting circles around us, that's cool.  I simply don't believe that Burns can be a standout 43 player.  Could he surprise me?  Sure, and I welcome it.  Miller isn't going to have a job.  Will may never see the field for us.  Little may be something, but the new staff has already talked about moving him to G....

As to whose fault it is that this team is so bad?  I can only look to 1 person that is still in the building after all these years of inconsistency and losing.  Marty Hurney.

Again. I’m not really a Marty defender. But I’m not gonna blame him for drafting a player that fits a 3-4 when the coaching staff announced we were moving to a 3-4. And if you are just gonna pin it on him like it’s entirely his fault then I think you are being dishonest with yourself about that situation