Most 1st Team All-Pros Drafted Since 2000

[electro's horse]

1 hour ago, Jon Snow said:

So he hired bad coaches?

reflection of the owner. 

[Jon Snow]

Just now, electro's horse said:

reflection of the owner. 

So it's everyone's fault but Marty's.  Got it.

[panthers55]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm sure the Patriots are very jealous of our success in this area.

I guess they'll have to settle for winning Super Bowls as a consolation prize.

Just like we are jealous of their Super bowls. Now we will find out if it was the system or Brady. 

But again the theory holds no water if Super Bowls wins are supposedly correlated to All-pro selections and New England isn't way in front which was the point here.  

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

So it's everyone's fault but Marty's.  Got it.

To be fair, Richardson did only allow for defensive coaches. Though mind you, that doesn't necessarily impact the quality of the coach.

It's also true that Richardson wanted to fire Rivera two years in, but Marty stepped in and fell on the sword to prevent that from happening.

Can't really blame Richardson for that.

[panthers55]

14 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

I meant LBs and RBs in a lotta cases (easy transition, low risk low reward positions). Cam was only controversial to numbskulls. But yea, no one is arguing Hurney isn’t money in the first round.  I hope his first round success continues and his rounds 2+ performance this time is way better than his history.  And I hope it’s his swan song. 

After the great job he just did in the draft, I suspect that buys him a year or two more.

[JawnyBlaze]

1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

After the great job he just did in the draft, I suspect that buys him a year or two more.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Just like we are jealous of their Super bowls. Now we will find out if it was the system or Brady. 

But again the theory holds no water if Super Bowls wins are supposedly correlated to All-pro selections and New England isn't way in front which was the point here.  

Super Bowl wins aren't correlated to All Pro selections. The fact that we have zero is pretty solid evidence of that.

Super Bowl wins and winning seasons in general do have a lot to do with solid roster building, again not something you got a lot of under Hurney.

[MasterAwesome]

For the "it's all about wins and losses" crowd...you realize the job of EVERY member of the organization is to win games, right?  So if you simply look at the big picture of wins/losses, how do you even begin to evaluate and separate the individual performances of GMs, coaches, quarterbacks, receivers, etc.?  You could have a HOF coach and a trash GM and it'd be impossible to separate one's success from the other's failures by your logic, because it's all about wins/losses, right?  No one is evaluated for their individual responsibilities within that larger ultimate goal of winning games...?

So if you had three consecutive losing seasons with the same GM, coaches, roster, etc. then do we fire/cut every single person and start over?  No...we actually apply nuance and evaluate individual performances.  We wouldn't cut a 3-time MVP quarterback because he hasn't taken us to the playoffs, even though his job is to win games and ultimately a Super Bowl.  Why is it different for the GM?  You can make the argument that he is not good at his individual responsibilities, but this is for those "It's about wins and losses, bruh" crowd.  Where do you draw the line if everyone's responsibility is to win? Y'all sound like TheRed when people dared praise CMC for his individual season and he just kept responding with "but 5-11 tho".  Cut that loser CMC!!!

[TheMostInterestingMan]

More than anything, this provides a base argument and confirms (as I’ve said since Tepper made the comment) that Tepper believes Marty is a great talent evaluator but not really the ideal GM overall. 
 

The only real complaint I’ve ever had about Marty drafts is his tendency to reach for players. Yes, he’s done some ridiculously bad things such as the Armanti Edwards nonsense he pulled. But you can’t argue with his track record of drafting superstars. He’s probably the best home run hitter in that regard in the entire league.

Hes a valuable asset to this team and Tepper knows that. But he doesn’t need to be working out contracts and running the team. His strength is in talent evaluation and that’s what he needs to focus on going forward.

[thefuzz]

2 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

For the "it's all about wins and losses" crowd...you realize the job of EVERY member of the organization is to win games, right?  So if you simply look at the big picture of wins/losses, how do you even begin to evaluate and separate the individual performances of GMs, coaches, quarterbacks, receivers, etc.?  You could have a HOF coach and a trash GM and it'd be impossible to separate one's success from the other's failures by your logic, because it's all about wins/losses, right?  No one is evaluated for their individual responsibilities within that larger ultimate goal of winning games...?

So if you had three consecutive losing seasons with the same GM, coaches, roster, etc. then do we fire/cut every single person and start over?  No...we actually apply nuance and evaluate individual performances.  We wouldn't cut a 3-time MVP quarterback because he hasn't taken us to the playoffs, even though his job is to win games and ultimately a Super Bowl.  Why is it different for the GM?  You can make the argument that he is not good at his individual responsibilities, but this is for those "It's about wins and losses, bruh" crowd.  Where do you draw the line if everyone's responsibility is to win? Y'all sound like TheRed when people dared praise CMC for his individual season and he just kept responding with "but 5-11 tho".  Cut that loser CMC!!!

You can get as mad at the guy stuffing the cannon balls during a sea battle all you want...I'm looking right to the Captain.

Marty has proven, over a VERY long tenure (especially for the NFL) that he is incapable of assembling consistent winning programs.  That cannot be debated.

Usually the NFL doesn't allow you to wallow in mediocrity and keep your job for over a decade....we will though.

[electro's horse]

20 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

So it's everyone's fault but Marty's.  Got it.

oh no, hurney has lots of problems. they just aren't first round draft picks. 

but the coaches were something he had very little control over as long as Richardson was there. 

Like, Fox was a hot hire, true, but he was a DC from the Giants organization. It was basically perfect for everyone, until Fox and hurney hated each other and the coach started sabotaging some of his draft prospects. 

Rivera was hired because he was cheap and also a DC that Richardson remembered as a player. He had the same coaching/playing style and philosophy. 

Hurney was allowed to hire Chud, because he had this weird two head coach system thing he wanted to implement.

It shouldn't really come as a surprise that as soon as Richardson is out the door the team hired something other than a former nfl DC. 

[thefuzz]

12 minutes ago, TheMostInterestingMan said:

More than anything, this prides a base argument and confirms (as I’ve said since Tepper made the comment) that Tepper believes Marty is a great talent evaluator but not really the ideal GM overall. 
 

The only real complaint I’ve ever had about Marty draft is his tendency to reach for players. Yes, he’s done some ridiculously bad things such as the Armanti Edwards nonsense he pulled. But you just argue with his track record of drafting superstars. He’s probably the best home run hitter in that regard in the entire league.

Hes a valuable asset to this team and Tepper knows that. But he doesn’t need to be working out contracts and running the team. His strength is in talent evaluation and that’s what he needs to focus on going forward.

Recency bias is hurting you I think.

Last year we had 3 picks in the top 100.  One may never see the field for us again, the other we traded up for and he's already picked up an alarming number of concussions, passed over on all of the interior offensive line talent, and drafted Burns...who may be able to play on the outside in the 43.

At the end of the day, we will likely leave last years draft with a couple of spot starters....if we are lucky.

Now we are switching back to a 43 so it limits 2 of our selections from a season ago, our interior O Line is still awful, we look to be the very worst team in our division. 

It's what Marty does.

 

[electro's horse]

the switch last year to a 3-4 base was the same kind of desperation move made under Fox when he hired Ron Meeks. 

We should have seen the writing on the wall then, instead of being excited because they legit did make free agency moves. just none of them worked out at all.

i got shouted down for musing burns isn't gonna work out in the new set so we'll see i guess.

[MasterAwesome]

3 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

You can get as mad at the guy stuffing the cannon balls during a sea battle all you want...I'm looking right to the Captain.

Marty has proven, over a VERY long tenure (especially for the NFL) that he is incapable of assembling consistent winning programs.  That cannot be debated.

Usually the NFL doesn't allow you to wallow in mediocrity and keep your job for over a decade....we will though.

Pretty sure the owner is the "Captain" in your analogy...you look to be blaming the First Mate (I think? I don't know boating terms very well).

People call Marty a "Yes man" for following the wishes of the owner, yet they blame him for all of his actions instead of the owner behind them, strangely.  Who's to say the owner doesn't hire another "Yes man" in his place?  If people hate Marty so much, how do you not argue he's a symptom of a larger disease?  Last I checked, we have never had a consistent winning program (or even back-to-back winning seasons) for the duration of our 25-year franchise...not even under Gettleman who is lauded by many here.  Sure sounds like the GM isn't the ultimate issue here.