Burns - Brown - Short - Gross-Matos

[kungfoodude]

9 minutes ago, Waldo said:

CMC produces and if a little over paid now, is still in another category than Shaq or KK (KK was there for a time). If Shaq doesn't step up into what ever role he is now with that deal and Luke gone, he will be in the 'when can we get rid of him/OMG that contract sucks' bin. I had and continue to have concerns that Shaq's contract was worth it, yes even losing Luke. We will see shortly. In his defense, I never really felt he had a place in Ron's D. Where the blame for that falls I do not know. The buffalo nickle idea was a bust and when TD was here he was basically a backup. Last year was a failure top down so I don't know there but not great vibes.

Contracts kill value. We got rid of Turner because of it. He used to play like that contract was worth it, not any more and he is gone. Same with KK, doesn't matter who is behind them. It's brutal and non-personal. 

KK is whatever for me. If we can get mentorship out of him or even decent play, awesome sauce. If not, later gator it was fun for a while and now you get to go live very comfortably the rest of your life. 

I think CMC and Shaq will eventually get to the point where the majority of the fans are going to want to get out of those contracts. They just aren't inherently valuable positions. I would say perhaps not but I can't see our current braintrust not spending a lot of our salary cap space as it becomes free, plus we have to do something with guys like Moton, Moore, etc. 

I would never argue that Short's contract isn't obscene or that he has underperformed it. I just think the shade thrown his way is unwarranted. We need to move on from him but Hurney fuged us and so I would imagine we probably have him here through next season and potentially the season after. It just depends on how they want to manage dead money and spend available cap.

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, SmartyHurney said:

I like this draft, but I think y'all expecting too much out of these kids this first season. Realistically you can expect a better run defense, but the pass-rush is going to take time to develop. You have to remember that this past season while the defensive line was horrible in run defense, they could rush the passer with ease. It's going to be a real fall off from that perspective. Even losing Kuechly you can expect a few less sacks, though he wasn't known for it.

Chinn is going to take a few seasons, unless he improves a lot in the off-season. Every game I've watched so far is showing me we drafted an athlete, but he's going to need a lot of coaching to get up to an NFL level. Though I guess that's why the Panthers got Matt Rhule.

Yeah people forget that we were slightly below average in Pass Rush Win Rates but our sack totals and pressures were top 5. 

We need to temper our expectations. We are going to be awful, we should EXPECT to be awful, don't start calling these kids busts from day one on a terrible team with no other options to bail them out. 

[R0CKnR0LLA]

1 hour ago, jfra78 said:

No YGM will play the strong side, while burns will play the weak side

im talking down not sides

[Waldo]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think CMC and Shaq will eventually get to the point where the majority of the fans are going to want to get out of those contracts. They just aren't inherently valuable positions. I would say perhaps not but I can't see our current braintrust not spending a lot of our salary cap space as it becomes free, plus we have to do something with guys like Moton, Moore, etc. 

I would never argue that Short's contract isn't obscene or that he has underperformed it. I just think the shade thrown his way is unwarranted. We need to move on from him but Hurney fuged us and so I would imagine we probably have him here through next season and potentially the season after. It just depends on how they want to manage dead money and spend available cap.

Live by the sword and die by the sword. Getting those huge contracts has that down side. They make a lot of money but as soon as there is an isssue it comes into question. I would bet Shaq's comes up as an issue long before CMC. When you think 2/3s of Moore's and Moton's possible new contract money is tied up in KK's $20 million it looks inevitable. It's so hard to predict 3 years out in the NFL but CMC seems a safe bet to me. It certainly isn't the norm, RBs just are not worth that kind of money any more. He is just exceptional across he board. 

The shade is heavy, hopefully too heavy, but unless he shows up hungry this year, I wouldn't expect it to go away. I completely agree about the rest. The structure and amount of that deal was ridiculous and completely a terrible idea. I would be surprised if he didn't have a chance to earn it this year but I don't know which KK will show up. The good but not great one or the fugging dominant beast he used to be. That is on him. Prove me wrong and I'll love being wrong in this case.  

[Riverboat Ron]

2 hours ago, bLACKpANTHER said:

Burns - Brown - KK - YGM:


Matt Ryan:

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Live by the sword and die by the sword. Getting those huge contracts has that down side. They make a lot of money but as soon as there is an isssue it comes into question. I would bet Shaq's comes up as an issue long before CMC. When you think 2/3s of Moore's and Moton's possible new contract money is tied up in KK's $20 million it looks inevitable. It's so hard to predict 3 years out in the NFL but CMC seems a safe bet to me. It certainly isn't the norm, RBs just are not worth that kind of money any more. He is just exceptional across he board. 

The shade is heavy, hopefully too heavy, but unless he shows up hungry this year, I wouldn't expect it to go away. I completely agree about the rest. The structure and amount of that deal was ridiculous and completely a terrible idea. I would be surprised if he didn't have a chance to earn it this year but I don't know which KK will show up. The good but not great one or the fugging dominant beast he used to be. That is on him. Prove me wrong and I'll love being wrong in this case.  

Shaq will be a target first because his cap figures are larger initially and he hits his point where we can cut him without a big dead money penalty before CMC does. I am not sure about CMC being safe, a lot of that depends on him continuing to be able to produce at the level he did the past two years(highly unlikely unless we run the wheels off him), continuing to be able to hold up to a high usage rate(highly unlikely) or just being a statistical outlier at his position(unlikely). At some point it all goes to poo and I imagine he is no different than any other of our great players that we moved on from. If they get sentimental about him after coldly jettisoning so many of our previous great players(and fan favorites), it will be pretty illogical. Let's hope they both can maintain a high level of production and play, so that this really isn't a future quandary. 

I hope we get some more prime KK but he's 31 and coming off of an injury, so I kind of doubt we will see it. But, again, maybe he proves us wrong and this isn't a future discussion. 

Hell, at some point you figure that something has to go our way while we nuke the entire franchise. 

[Snake]

3 hours ago, raz said:

is it really pronounces gross mattose like goodell said it?

I will always pronounce it gross tomatoes. 

[Waldo]

7 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Hell, at some point you figure that something has to go our way while we nuke the entire franchise. 

It feels brutal looking at winning being a 2 or 3 year ordeal. I know the plan, I back it generally but I keep falling in to the trap about this year not being good and that being OK but still not making it negative. Just so many past mistakes to still clean up and get off the books. 

This draft has been refreshing. It was so much better than feared. 3 good prospects in the first 3 rounds. That is a change and for the better.

 

[saX man]

Don't sleep on Weatherly.   Rhule brought him up really quickly during his Q&A and he's only going into year 3 where big strides are made.  Also, had two decent seasons in MIN so far, nothing special, but you never know. 

We actually still need depth on the interior. Kerr seems good for NT but could use a guy that can play at  few spots *cough Lynch lol

[Snake]

3 minutes ago, Waldo said:

It feels brutal looking at winning being a 2 or 3 year ordeal. I know the plan, I back it generally but I keep falling in to the trap about this year not being good and that being OK but still not making it negative. Just so many past mistakes to still clean up and get off the books. 

This draft has been refreshing. It was so much better than feared. 3 good prospects in the first 3 rounds. That is a change and for the better.

 

It might have changed a 2 win team to a 6 or 7 win team. We still will have to have another off season and good draft to get a consistent 9 or 10 wins a year. 

[kungfoodude]

12 minutes ago, Waldo said:

It feels brutal looking at winning being a 2 or 3 year ordeal. I know the plan, I back it generally but I keep falling in to the trap about this year not being good and that being OK but still not making it negative. Just so many past mistakes to still clean up and get off the books. 

This draft has been refreshing. It was so much better than feared. 3 good prospects in the first 3 rounds. That is a change and for the better.

 

Yeah. I understand it, didn't like it, but I am resigned to it now. I will hate it more progressively as I watch the Saints, Bucs and Falcons battle for playoffs while we position for top 10 draft picks. It is going to be brutal.

I just hope we don't screw it up. It is going to be an awful time to be a Panthers fan. 

[kungfoodude]

9 minutes ago, Snake said:

It might have changed a 2 win team to a 6 or 7 win team. We still will have to have another off season and good draft to get a consistent 9 or 10 wins a year. 

That would be an amazing turnaround. I don't think it will happen that quickly.

[RumHam]

4 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

WTF is going on here. That almost seems like a legit defensive line already. Give it a year and man oh man. 

if these people actually get playing time and we utilize properly we saw what happened last year

[onmyown]

4 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

WTF is going on here. That almost seems like a legit defensive line already. Give it a year and man oh man. 

Based on what? Short is done and two are rookies. Luke is gone. Our best dlineman is a second year player who we know can play but if he’s the only one he’ll be easily contained.

I know as fans we like to hype up stuff before actually seeing them play in the NFL but I don’t see the need.

Last year for instance with McCoy I remember the exact same threads. And we posted a record for one of the worst run defenses in the NFL and that starts with the line.

 but but injuries...yea I’ve memorized that song. Got have depth as well.

This is based on history and stuff to write on paper...vs. based on hope/hype.