"Derrick Brown is not a sexy pick."

[jfra78]

1 hour ago, Verge said:

The only high profile recent example I can give for a player falling is Orlando Brown Jr. which he has obviously proven was stupid. 

Only DT I can remember the combine helping was Poe

[TheMostInterestingMan]

4 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

Thats not the point. No one is saying he isn't a good player and wont demand a double team. The point is his value at 7. Those guys tackles picked that high.. suh williams mccoy so on, Generational talents who demand a double team and are freaky athletic enough to also still get the sacks. Those guys are Generational athletes. A run stuffer just isn't... When is the last time a sub par athlete "mostly" run stuffer went top 7? It just doesn't happen.

Nearly every NFL scout had him as BPA and many had him ranked as the 2nd best defensive player in the draft. So unless all the scouts were wrong then I think you bias is showing

[micnificent28]

25 minutes ago, TheMostInterestingMan said:

Nearly every NFL scout had him as BPA and many had him ranked as the 2nd best defensive player in the draft. So unless all the scouts were wrong then I think you bias is showing

No the major outlets say ESPN have him rated that high. Pff and a few other have him like 16th. His ability to stop the run and impact the line is great i don't hate the pick and I understand why they did. I'm just saying, show me another time this type of player has went this high. It's almost unprecedented.

[micnificent28]

4 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Well apparently old micnificent28 here didn't have him in his top 500. Cause, you know, the Underwear Olympics is the most critical factor in NFL success.

its a top 7 pick. And picking that high yeah I want a superior athlete. Again show me in history where this type of player has went this high. I dont homer for everything the panthers do like you sir. Again not a bad pick, I dont hate Brown hes a monstrous run stuffer. I'm just saying show me an example of a straightforward nose tackle has went this high. 

If its a pass first league your philosophy towards the draft history change as well. Guys that contribute to that factor get pushed up and guys don't should get pushed down. Just like the rb position isn't as valued as it use to be as far as the Jim browns or the just bruiser backs.  The position had to evolve, I'm applying that same rational to the defensive tackle position. 

Again not saying he isn't a first round pick, he's a horse just question his top 7 ability in todays NFL.

[run-run-pass-punt]

12 hours ago, TheMostInterestingMan said:

Even if he can just be a slight stronger and more athletic version of Star then he was worth the pick at #7 imo. I keep seeing posts about how how a big run stuffer that doesn’t get 10 sacks a season can’t be worth a top 10 pick. But how many of the sacks KK, Burns and Gross-Matos will be because of the attention Brown demands?

KK’s numbers sure dropped after Star left. Just because Star wasn’t getting the sacks himself does not mean he didn’t improve our pass rush

Absolutely. It's a team game where every element (player) effects all others. I mentioned before that *any* player that consistently requires extra attention has incredible value regardless of any "numbers" he may have in ink on the stat sheet. To me, Brown definitely looks like he'll be a guy that will often need extra attention from opposing offensive coordinators. When that happens you've got numbers advantages, and if you've got talent elsewhere, it will have an opportunity to really shine. (because of that "hidden" gem of  a player)

That aside, I think Brown has higher upside as a disruptor than some are giving him credit for. I think he'll be more than "just" a run-stuffer for us. I think he's going to be a guy that gets doubled or wrecks plays, and even wrecks plays *because* he is doubled. That's HOT!

[TheMostInterestingMan]

3 minutes ago, run-run-pass-punt said:

Absolutely. It's a team game where every element (player) effects all others. I mentioned before that *any* player that consistently requires extra attention has incredible value regardless of any "numbers" he may have in ink on the stat sheet. To me, Brown definitely looks like he'll be a guy that will often need extra attention from opposing offensive coordinators. When that happens you've got numbers advantages, and if you've got talent elsewhere, it will have an opportunity to really shine. (because of that "hidden" gem of  a player)

That aside, I think Brown has higher upside as a disruptor than some are giving him credit for. I think he'll be more than "just" a run-stuffer for us. I think he's going to be a guy that gets doubled or wrecks plays, and even wrecks plays *because* he is doubled. That's HOT!

Completely agree. The dude is a monstrosity of a man with a lot of drive. His best days are well ahead of him imo. If he puts in the work (which I strongly believe he will) then he will be a great pick at 7. I have little doubt 

[Borat]

I dunno...I get pretty worked up about the thought of a huge interior DL collapsing the pocket on a regular basis... 

[Moo Daeng]

A guy like this or a guy like Quenton Nelson are about as sexy as it gets when you are re-building a soft a team.

[ecu88]

34 minutes ago, TheMostInterestingMan said:

Completely agree. The dude is a monstrosity of a man with a lot of drive. His best days are well ahead of him imo. If he puts in the work (which I strongly believe he will) then he will be a great pick at 7. I have little doubt 

Imma ready to see him forklift NFL oline onto QBs for highlight pr0n.

[theinstrumental]

If you wanted evidence of a new ideology, you're disappointed. If you wanted a good football player, you're not. That's it.

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, micnificent28 said:

its a top 7 pick. And picking that high yeah I want a superior athlete. Again show me in history where this type of player has went this high. I dont homer for everything the panthers do like you sir. Again not a bad pick, I dont hate Brown hes a monstrous run stuffer. I'm just saying show me an example of a straightforward nose tackle has went this high. 

If its a pass first league your philosophy towards the draft history change as well. Guys that contribute to that factor get pushed up and guys don't should get pushed down. Just like the rb position isn't as valued as it use to be as far as the Jim browns or the just bruiser backs.  The position had to evolve, I'm applying that same rational to the defensive tackle position. 

Again not saying he isn't a first round pick, he's a horse just question his top 7 ability in todays NFL.

Lol. If you think I am a homer, you sure don't read any of my posts. I am about the most critical person on here of that failure of an organization.

If he ends up being the pocket collapsing QB that he was in college, he will be very valuable. A DT's value is not solely sacks. I would also be willing to bet Brown was pretty impressive on QB pressures, although I don't think that is a stat you will find easily for college players. 

He's a pretty complete DT, just not an elite athlete nor likely to be a consistent 10+ sack DT. But, those kind of DT's are exceedingly rare In fact, of the 34 players in NFL history with 100+ career sacks, only one is a DT(John Randle).  

You are just butthurt over not getting Simmons. Yes, Simmons is a great athlete but he wouldn't have been nearly as much help to our defense as Brown will be. I suspect Brown will ultimately have a more successful NFL career, as well. A lot of that will just depend on what exactly Simmons ends up being and where he is.

[Icege]

Got the best DT that can handle double teams and then got more of a DB-esque Isaiah Simmons late in the 2nd after taking a 1st round pass rusher that fell to us at the start of the round?

Who's been messing with my thermostat......

[tiger7_88]

13 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Especially at those OL/DT spots. Yes it is fantastic if you are a freak athlete but the bulk of the players at those positions in the NFL are not. And, consequently, being a freak athlete does not make you an instant success in positions which rely heavily on having great technique or strength. 

Being an elite athlete is just one part of the puzzle. 

Gonna give you an example of a “freak athlete” from my college team (and the same one that Derrick Brown comes from) that went with the #2 overall pick and never amounted to anything...

Greg Robinson

The combine made that dude a LOT of money he never earned.

(And money he obviously blew every penny of since he was recently arrested on a major federal marijuana dealing charge.)