"Official" draft day thread.

[CarolinaNCSU]

Ton of talent still left.  No need to trade up from where we're at, grab BPA whatever position it may be. OL, DL, CB, S, WR, TE...whatever. 

Yeah, our CB situation is garbage, but chances are that's not changing with a 2nd round rookie.  Take the best guys, don't reach for need when we're not ready to compete for anything. 

[stbugs]

1 minute ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

Hoping hurts makes it to the mid 3rds and we trade up to grab him 

Wait, Short is pretty much on his last leg and you wouldn't be OK with a stud like Blalock to add to Brown giving us the DT tandem that helped our D from 2013-2016, but you are willing to throw away a 3rd on Hurts? He's not an NFL QB IMHO. We don't need another Grier or Allen. Hurts is not a franchise QB, so what's the point?

[jfra78]

2 minutes ago, ichigo1057 said:

Ah, gotcha. Thanks for the info. I know a decent amount about the draft process but didn't really think about the rules when a tie happens.

Me either, it was explained when the picks were announced.  I still dont understand it fully

[Cpt slay a ho]

5 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Wait, Short is pretty much on his last leg and you wouldn't be OK with a stud like Blalock to add to Brown giving us the DT tandem that helped our D from 2013-2016, but you are willing to throw away a 3rd on Hurts? He's not an NFL QB IMHO. We don't need another Grier or Allen. Hurts is not a franchise QB, so what's the point?

I understand there’s this notion that short sucks cause he hasn’t lived up to his contract but let’s pump the brakes on that, he’s coming off his first major Injury.
 

Secondly, spamming dt picks is what got us ultimately where we are at now, suck city, the secondary constant got shredded like a tony hawks pro skater game 2013- til infinity. I’d rather throw away a late 4th and 5th for the potential than to draft some camp fodder, I’m not talking about getting hurts with our original 3rd rounder that’s way too high 

[stbugs]

4 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

Me either, it was explained when the picks were announced.  I still dont understand it fully

It's pretty simple. There were 3 teams that finished 5-11 (Miami, LAC and us). Based on reverse SOS, they determine the 1st round order which was MIA, LAC and CAR. Every round, that order rotates where the team with the top pick in round 1 goes to 3rd in round 2 and the other two teams move up one slot. That continues to happen each round. 1st round we pick 7th (MIA 5th, LAC 6th), 2nd round we pick 6th (MIA 7th, LAC 5th) and 3rd round we pick 5th (Miami 6th, LAC 7th). Since there are 3 teams tied, round 4 starts over with what the order was in round 1 and so on.

Sometimes when setting the round 1 order teams can have the identical SOS and they do a coin flip and set round 1 order and again tied teams rotate each round.

[stbugs]

1 minute ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

I understand there’s this notion that short sucks cause he hasn’t lived up to his contract but let’s pump the brakes on that, he’s coming off his first major Injury.
 

Secondly, spamming dt picks is what got us ultimately where we are at now, suck city, the secondary constant got shredded like a tony hawks pro skater game 2013- til infinity. I’d rather throw away a late 4th and 5th for the potential than to draft some camp fodder, I’m not talking about getting hurts with our original 3rd rounder that’s way too high 

Pump the brakes? Major injury at 31 is a good thing? He was already trending down in 2018, after solid years in 2016 and 2017. He missed all of 2019 with an injury and that's not good. Paradis and Williams sure didn't recover well. Short is now 3 years away from his last good year. He's not close to being worth $13M in salary this year. We've taken 2 DTs, one in the 7th round, in the 6 drafts after Short and Star. That's not exactly spamming DTs. That's why we are where we are, needing Brown plus another DT to replace Short this year or next.

Hurts is a waste. He doesn't have franchise QB potential. He's like a Fromm, maybe he can QB a stud D team with CMC. You said trade up to get him mid 3rd, so that means our 4th and next year's 3rd at a minimum. Pick 113 is worth less than half of pick 80-85 in the mid 3rd. It's a terrible idea on a QB who isn't leading an NFL team to the playoffs.

[LinvilleGorge]

16 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

I understand there’s this notion that short sucks cause he hasn’t lived up to his contract but let’s pump the brakes on that, he’s coming off his first major Injury.
 

Secondly, spamming dt picks is what got us ultimately where we are at now, suck city, the secondary constant got shredded like a tony hawks pro skater game 2013- til infinity. I’d rather throw away a late 4th and 5th for the potential than to draft some camp fodder, I’m not talking about getting hurts with our original 3rd rounder that’s way too high 

It wasn't the secondary getting shredded last year, it was the DL. They were the reason why we were dead last in practically ever measurable run defense category.

[PleaseCutStewart]

33 minutes ago, CarolinaNCSU said:

Ton of talent still left.  No need to trade up from where we're at, grab BPA whatever position it may be. OL, DL, CB, S, WR, TE...whatever. 

Yeah, our CB situation is garbage, but chances are that's not changing with a 2nd round rookie.  Take the best guys, don't reach for need when we're not ready to compete for anything. 

I mostly agree, but I think Diggs would be great to have for us at CB if we did trade up and not give away much (I would do a 2nd and a 5th with Cinci)

[Cpt slay a ho]

3 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Pump the brakes? Major injury at 31 is a good thing? He was already trending down in 2018, after solid years in 2016 and 2017. He missed all of 2019 with an injury and that's not good. Paradis and Williams sure didn't recover well. Short is now 3 years away from his last good year. He's not close to being worth $13M in salary this year. We've taken 2 DTs, one in the 7th round, in the 6 drafts after Short and Star. That's not exactly spamming DTs. That's why we are where we are, needing Brown plus another DT to replace Short this year or next.

Hurts is a waste. He doesn't have franchise QB potential. He's like a Fromm, maybe he can QB a stud D team with CMC. You said trade up to get him mid 3rd, so that means our 4th and next year's 3rd at a minimum. Pick 113 is worth less than half of pick 80-85 in the mid 3rd. It's a terrible idea on a QB who isn't leading an NFL team to the playoffs.

For every one player you list that hasn’t recover there Are equal or more that have gone on to play exceptional well after injury, no it’s not ideal to have an injury at 31 but it’s his first one and not a lower leg injury like Williams or paradis suffered. 
 

Drafting his replacement this year instead of waiting to see the draft class next year or fa would be asinine, we did that with Vernon and he didn’t see significant playing time until his final year, double dipping in any draft really isn’t a great idea unless there’s a monumental slip of a player otherwise you handicap yourself on options.

I'm not advocating giving up a 3rd next year for hurts, just whatever our 4th and 5th will get us maybe next years 5th also. Has better upside than what we currently have 

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

For every one player you list that hasn’t recover there Are equal or more that have gone on to play exceptional well after injury, no it’s not ideal to have an injury at 31 but it’s his first one and not a lower leg injury like Williams or paradis suffered. 
 

Drafting his replacement this year instead of waiting to see the draft class next year or fa would be asinine, we did that with Vernon and he didn’t see significant playing time until his final year, double dipping in any draft really isn’t a great idea unless there’s a monumental slip of a player otherwise you handicap yourself on options.

I'm not advocating giving up a 3rd next year for hurts, just whatever our 4th and 5th will get us maybe next years 5th also. Has better upside than what we currently have 

No matter how you look at it, Short is on the wrong side of 30 and has a massive cap hit. The other DTs on our roster are...

Yeah, we could absolutely take another DT. If Gallimore or Blacklock was the pick at #38 you wouldn't hear me complaining. I honestly think we take another DT before this is over. Rhule is gonna be screaming his head off for Lynch no matter what.

[Cpt slay a ho]

18 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It wasn't the secondary getting shredded last year, it was the DL. They were the reason why we were dead last in practically ever measurable run defense category.

That is Facts but I’m not a fan of the double dip, it work in 2013 and failed miserably in 2014. However if a dt is the bpa at our pick sure but I don’t think it will be given the holes we have or created this offseason. 

pick your poison basically, do you trust donte and the ghost of bradberry in the secondary as it stands or kk coming off of injury and Derrick brown 
 

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, Cpt slay a ho said:

That is Facts but I’m not a fan of the double dip, it work in 2013 and failed miserably in 2014. However if a dt is the bpa at our pick sure but I don’t think it will be given the holes we have or created this offseason. 

pick your poison basically, do you trust donte and the ghost of bradberry in the secondary as in stands or kk coming off of injury and Derrick brown 
 

Don't get it twisted, we aren't competing this season. If you accept that then I think you can start to view this draft class much more obectively.

[Cpt slay a ho]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

No matter how you look at it, Short is on the wrong side of 30 and has a massive cap hit. The other DTs on our roster are...

Yeah, we could absolutely take another DT. If Gallimore or Blacklock was the pick at #38 you wouldn't hear me complaining. I honestly think we take another DT before this is over. Rhule is gonna be screaming his head off for Lynch no matter what.

If we take another one I’m peachy but I’m not a fan of back to back position picks(granted they won’t play the same position per say). Also thinks there’s a better chance a quality dt is available later in the draft than cb, c, ect 

[Cpt slay a ho]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Don't get it twisted, we aren't competing this season. If you accept that then I think you can start to view this draft class much more obectively.

Oh man I’ve been accepted this after we signed bridgewater and started stacking up dead money. If they have the dt graded the highest on the board I can live with it but without seeing fa next year or the draft class for next just feels like hand cuffing us for future transactions.

what if next year we are in position to take a dt coming out graded as high as brown or suh, or Donald? We’d be out of luck since we’d have two young guys on the roster, unless we want to do the whole 3 dt rotational things again, I will say the position less talk by Rhule would help but who knows if snow buys into that