NFC South moves

[shaqattaq]

14 hours ago, Happy Panther said:

Until Brady is in a wheelchair I'm not betting against him. Even then I give him two years in the wheelchair.

Same with Gronk, who is 1 hit away from a wheelchair as is. H ain't as good as he once was, but he still has a lot of juice left.

[Gucceland]

14 hours ago, MMA said:

Panthers

Gain: Teddy Bridgewater, Robby Anderson, Kirkwood, Roberts, Cooper, Miller

 

Panthers fans, “our offense is going to be great. We can go on a shootout with any team.”

Bridgewater is an improvement over a broken Cam, but not an improvement over a healthy Cam.  We will still have the 4th best QB in the NFC South anyway you slice it.

Our WRs are also all #2 or #3 on any other team in the NFC South.  

RB is #1 in the Turner system...but we are not in that system any longer...so he may less of a factor now.

TE we are dead last in the NFC South.

OL....LOL!

[MMA]

27 minutes ago, Gucceland said:

Bridgewater is an improvement over a broken Cam, but not an improvement over a healthy Cam.  We will still have the 4th best QB in the NFC South anyway you slice it.

Our WRs are also all #2 or #3 on any other team in the NFC South.  

RB is #1 in the Turner system...but we are not in that system any longer...so he may less of a factor now.

TE we are dead last in the NFC South.

OL....LOL!

What about coaches and owner? 

[Mr. Scot]

3 hours ago, stbugs said:

What dead cap are we dumping? I’m not talking about cap space that we had to account for no matter what. With all the FA deals and trade, I don’t see much savings. The Cam money went right to Teddy and we actually owe more since he’ll be here 2 years at a minimum. Anderson negates Poe and again adds more in year 2. Okung saves us a little in year 2, but Teddy and Anderson way over compensate for the savings there. We haven’t dumped Short yet so that’s a net new $13M lost this year. If we truly wanted to save cap to roll over for a SB run with a rookie QB, we’ve done a poo ass job of it. Pretty sure we are spending a lot more than what we could have to get some real impact FAs in 2022 when we’ll actually be competitive and the door to own the division wide open. Spending $75-89M on Teddy, Anderson and Short over the next two years seems incredibly wasteful. That’s as much as Jack Conklin and Donte Fowler’s full contracts they just signed. That’s more than CMC will make over the next 6 years all to try and get to 8-8 the next two years.

I get what you mean, but Cam wasn't dead cap.

If I remember correctly, we have about 50 million in dead cap right now.

[stbugs]

55 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I get what you mean, but Cam wasn't dead cap.

If I remember correctly, we have about 50 million in dead cap right now.

Right but dead cap is cap we’d have to account for regardless. If Luke was playing this year we’d have a larger cap hit but his bonus money we hadn’t accounted for was going to hit this year regardless.

I know people get up in arms about dead cap, but dead cap is unaccounted for cap space that we deferred via bonuses. No matter what it was going to take away cap space in 2020 or maybe 2021. With rollover now, it almost doesn’t matter.

My point is that we haven’t really saved anything and people acting like our big dead cap removal this year is putting us in great shape aren’t realizing that we’ve spent more than we could have saved. Trade Turner for picks and we save $20.5M in cap in 2020 and 2021. Trade for Okung and we MAY save $7.5M in 2021. That assumes we don’t extend Okung. Release Cam and start Grier to go for Lawrence, save $19M in cap in 2020. Sign Teddy instead and lose $2M in cap space in 2020 and potentially another $30M in 2021 and 2022. Draft a WR in a stud WR class costs a rookie contract. Instead sign Anderson and lose around $18M in 2020 and 2021. Release Short and save $13M in 2020 and $13.5M in 2021. Instead keep a mediocre DT and pay him like he’s a stud and lose $13M and maybe even $26.5M the next two years.

Yes, dead cap appears to be lessening but we are about to waste a lot of cap space on a team that’s clearly the bottom of our division right now.

[45catfan]

2 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Right but dead cap is cap we’d have to account for regardless. If Luke was playing this year we’d have a larger cap hit but his bonus money we hadn’t accounted for was going to hit this year regardless.

I know people get up in arms about dead cap, but dead cap is unaccounted for cap space that we deferred via bonuses. No matter what it was going to take away cap space in 2020 or maybe 2021. With rollover now, it almost doesn’t matter.

My point is that we haven’t really saved anything and people acting like our big dead cap removal this year is putting us in great shape aren’t realizing that we’ve spent more than we could have saved. Trade Turner for picks and we save $20.5M in cap in 2020 and 2021. Trade for Okung and we MAY save $7.5M in 2021. That assumes we don’t extend Okung. Release Cam and start Grier to go for Lawrence, save $19M in cap in 2020. Sign Teddy instead and lose $2M in cap space in 2020 and potentially another $30M in 2021 and 2022. Draft a WR in a stud WR class costs a rookie contract. Instead sign Anderson and lose around $18M in 2020 and 2021. Release Short and save $13M in 2020 and $13.5M in 2021. Instead keep a mediocre DT and pay him like he’s a stud and lose $13M and maybe even $26.5M the next two years.

Yes, dead cap appears to be lessening but we are about to waste a lot of cap space on a team that’s clearly the bottom of our division right now.

It never was about saving cap space this year, it was about the health of the cap beyond 2020.  It's like filing for bankruptcy, the team decided upon the regime change to clean it's slate for the future even if the short-term impact is brutal.  This idea of cutting out every contract of above a certain arbitrary amount is a bit unrealistic.  Also, I know you really want this team to do horribly this year for reasons you have stated, but this organization has a business to run, so it's fairly smart to try to compete, which means having to sign some players that upgrade the current roster, even in the short term.  The average fan doesn't care about a college prospect next season. The outward appearance that the organization from top to bottom could care less about the product ("the brand') it puts on the field Sundays this fall really damning.

 

[stbugs]

1 hour ago, 45catfan said:

It never was about saving cap space this year, it was about the health of the cap beyond 2020.  It's like filing for bankruptcy, the team decided upon the regime change to clean it's slate for the future even if the short-term impact is brutal.  This idea of cutting out every contract of above a certain arbitrary amount is a bit unrealistic.  Also, I know you really want this team to do horribly this year for reasons you have stated, but this organization has a business to run, so it's fairly smart to try to compete, which means having to sign some players that upgrade the current roster, even in the short term.  The average fan doesn't care about a college prospect next season. The outward appearance that the organization from top to bottom could care less about the product ("the brand') it puts on the field Sundays this fall really damning.

 

Sorry, that makes no sense. Do you understand what dead cap truly is? The health of the cap going forward is about one thing, cap space. All the guaranteed money and bonuses paid are already done it’s just when it hits the cap. All told we have way less cap in 2020, 2021 and beyond than we could have. I’m stunned that people think our post 2020 cap situation is somehow better than before free agency started. It’s not. We will have over $70M less cap space in 2021 than we could have easily had.

Also, I don’t believe for a second that putting lipstick on a pig is fooling anyone. If we went 2-14 last year and had the top pick this year do you think we’d have less fans than going 5-11 and losing 8 straight?

If Lawrence or Fields are as good as I think they are that’s all you need. I’m old enough to have gone to Patriots games pre-Brady when they sucked balls. People were handing out extra tickets before games. All it took was Brady (and Bledsoe helped before him) and winning games to get their fan base to be the dicks they are today. If we went 1-15 and got Lawrence, that would enthuse the fan base way more than limping to pick 8 with Teddy.

Trying to compete may give some fans hope in July, but when we go 0-6 in the division, that’ll do more damage knowing Jacksonville or Detroit will have the franchise QB that we won’t.

[45catfan]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

Sorry, that makes no sense. Do you understand what dead cap truly is? The health of the cap going forward is about one thing, cap space. All the guaranteed money and bonuses paid are already done it’s just when it hits the cap. All told we have way less cap in 2020, 2021 and beyond than we could have. I’m stunned that people think our post 2020 cap situation is somehow better than before free agency started. It’s not. We will have over $70M less cap space in 2021 than we could have easily had.

Also, I don’t believe for a second that putting lipstick on a pig is fooling anyone. If we went 2-14 last year and had the top pick this year do you think we’d have less fans than going 5-11 and losing 8 straight?

If Lawrence or Fields are as good as I think they are that’s all you need. I’m old enough to have gone to Patriots games pre-Brady when they sucked balls. People were handing out extra tickets before games. All it took was Brady (and Bledsoe helped before him) and winning games to get their fan base to be the dicks they are today. If we went 1-15 and got Lawrence, that would enthuse the fan base way more than limping to pick 8 with Teddy.

Trying to compete may give some fans hope in July, but when we go 0-6 in the division, that’ll do more damage knowing Jacksonville or Detroit will have the franchise QB that we won’t.

I see where you are coming from, but you have to understand the average fan that comes on game days could care less about any of this.  They are there for a fun time with family/friends and to see a good game.  To that end, if butts are to remain in seats, we need to have a competitive team even if we do lose more than we win.  Sure it would probably be better in the long run of the team to cut every high priced player, sign a bunch of no-names in FA for chump change, go 0-16 and be the laughing stock of the League. However, I would think Tepper and this new staff has more pride than that.   

Lastly our cap situation for 2021 is looking fine.  We are just under $60 million in cap space for 2021.  If we are building through the draft (as we should be) that's more than enough for a few top-end FAs if needed.

[stbugs]

1 hour ago, 45catfan said:

I see where you are coming from, but you have to understand the average fan that comes on game days could care less about any of this.  They are there for a fun time with family/friends and to see a good game.  To that end, if butts are to remain in seats, we need to have a competitive team even if we do lose more than we win.  Sure it would probably be better in the long run of the team to cut every high priced player, sign a bunch of no-names in FA for chump change, go 0-16 and be the laughing stock of the League. However, I would think Tepper and this new staff has more pride than that.   

Lastly our cap situation for 2021 is looking fine.  We are just under $60 million in cap space for 2021.  If we are building through the draft (as we should be) that's more than enough for a few top-end FAs if needed.

We’ve got 28 players under contract in 2021 and $56M in space, so just draft picks alone this year and next get us down to $40. Then you still need another 10 players. Are we resigning Moton, Okung, Samuel and Moore? I could see that number getting to $20M quickly. That’s not a few top end FAs. That’s dollar store signings while we are still the bottom of the NFCS.

With PSLs butts would stay in the seats. We are just going to stay mediocre for more than we had to and we wouldn’t lose fans with one down year with a light at the end of the tunnel. We will lose fans with 4 straight years of 5-11 to 7-9 with no franchise QB. I’m way more disinterested in this team trying to stay competitive the way they are. CMC is nice but he’s not going to be enough to keep fans with a bridge QB and no hope for a franchise QB.

Oh well, I’m done complaining, the draft is tomorrow. I just don’t get any fan, especially in here thinking it’s smart to waste a golden opportunity we had in our hands that we pissed away thinking we had any shot at the playoffs.