Many mocks have us trading back; the case for OT over DT

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, raleigh-panther said:

they got Okung as they knew they were getting Bridgewater and they also knew Turner and Newton were friends.  No  distractions in the locker room 

Good point---Turner and Newton are loyal to one another--which is why I thought the Chargers traded to bring Turner in---lure Cam there--still could happen, I guess.

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, Waldo said:

 

We had only met with Misouri's Durant, and many project him to guard.  However, with this virus, I do not know how much they have kicked the tires other ways.  WE are flying blind.

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, saX man said:

I think the first wildcard is Detroit. I just don’t see them staying put and taking Okudah.  He’s continuously being mocked because they had the big Slay trade but I don’t see the point in just grabbing another CB for virtually the same defense. They need someone that changes that defense and will be the field general.  

I have to think they’re either trading down or will make the first surprise move.

I read somewhere that the Lions have made it clear that they are open for business.  However, if they move out (#3 is an expensive trade), it could be the Phins or Chargers moving up--they could still get Okudah at #5 or #6, unless the Giants take Okudah, when he is suddenly available.  That kicks Simmons in play, so if the Lions (at #5 or 6) are interested, he could be the guy.  However, their (arguably, since the signed Trufant CB in free agency) biggest need is DL and interior Oline, while CB stays a priority.  Detroit only had 28 team sacks last year, 31st in the NFL.  This is where the draft could get interesting.  I look for Detroit--if they trade back a few spots (as we think they will) might take Brown, DT if Okudah is not there.  What does that scenario mean for the Panthers?

Simmons (assuming we do not go OT).

[Shocker]

If we took a stud OT and stud interior OL early the offense is pretty damn good.  Defense will be terrible for a while but whatever.

[MHS831]

4 hours ago, Daddy_Uncle said:

100% for one of the top tackles. Good luck trying to convince other people on here who thinks it's okay to continue to ignore the position. We need a top tier offensive line for Brady's offense to work

To me, LT is an illusion right now---did we trade Turner to dump a bad contract and sign Okung as insurance for a season?  If we do not sign a LT, then he holds it down until Little's situation is more clear?  If that is the case, and we pass on a T now, we may never get the chance to pick from the cream of the crop again.  We are not drafting for now--we are drafting for the future.  However, signing Wills allows us to cut Okung and get the salary back--some $13m to spend on a free agent or two if needed.  Or we could use the money to extend Moton.  Now you have the 1-2 OT combo for the next 9-12 years.  

The more I think about it, the more I like it.

 

[MHS831]

55 minutes ago, cmichd said:

As I said DT's are a dime a dozen and you can find that diamond in the rough off a DT than you can an LT picked in the 5th to 7th round.  Grab one of those 4 and then get you a decent Dt in the 2nd and a livable 3rd round CB.  Defense is going to suck this year no matter what we do.  We will be in the playoffs in 3 years if we fix the OLine today and we do have 4 great ones sitting there in this draft for the taking.

I know--and much of our mindset was formed with KK on the IR and nobody else on the roster.  Did we overreact, and target DT in panic mode?  This OT crop is crazy good in the first round, and there are some decent options in round 2. 

DT? We have sorta addressed that with Kerr.  We need to develop a rotational player or two, but a rotational DT plays 40% of the plays on the high end; a LT plays every play.  More bang for buck

[MHS831]

10 minutes ago, Shocker said:

If we took a stud OT and stud interior OL early the offense is pretty damn good.  Defense will be terrible for a while but whatever.

Ok, I see that, but hear me out. 

Trade back a few spots and take a LT.  You get a second rounder and a starting LT.

Cut Okung.  His salary is not guaranteed. ($13m).  You just saved about $8m at LT.

Extend Moton with the Okung savings.  You now have 2 bookend OTs and 2 second round picks.

In the second round, select a DT. (Blacklock, Gallimore) and draft a CB. 

So we got cap room to extend Moton (which is like adding a RT long term), a solid DT to rotate with Short, and a second tier CB for taking a Tackle after moving back a few spots.

Win Win Win.

We can then add a NT/UT later.

 

[Valentino]

I hate trading back but not a fan of anyone falling to us to be honest 2017 I was happy we would have got mccaffrey or fornetre this draft is wr heavy and it’s not a need but bpa . I don’t want brown or Simmons not fans I would like okuduh

[BrianS]

We all keep missing the point.

When did we get to the SB?  When our DL was amazing.

Look at the Chiefs.  When did they finally get over the hump?  Their offense has been good for years now, but in 2019 they learned how to stop people.

Until we fix our DLine, we won't be able to stop anyone.  Until we can stop people, we won't be a credible threat to finally lift a Lombardi.

We have plenty of OT's.  We have FOUR PLAYERS who have started NFL games on our roster at OT.  Sure, Okung is a one year loan, I get it.  But if he's good, there is no reason we cannot resign him next year.  Stop with the OT talk.  I'd rather see us draft a guard.  Not at #7 of course, but we need to fix our interior OLine *far* more than our tackles.

[MHS831]

14 minutes ago, BrianS said:

We all keep missing the point.

When did we get to the SB?  When our DL was amazing.

Look at the Chiefs.  When did they finally get over the hump?  Their offense has been good for years now, but in 2019 they learned how to stop people.

Until we fix our DLine, we won't be able to stop anyone.  Until we can stop people, we won't be a credible threat to finally lift a Lombardi.

We have plenty of OT's.  We have FOUR PLAYERS who have started NFL games on our roster at OT.  Sure, Okung is a one year loan, I get it.  But if he's good, there is no reason we cannot resign him next year.  Stop with the OT talk.  I'd rather see us draft a guard.  Not at #7 of course, but we need to fix our interior OLine *far* more than our tackles.

Counterpoint: Who caused us to LOSE the Broncos Super Bowl?  An offensive tackle.  I agree about the DL, but having players with experience picking up the QB after being sacked saying, "My bad, Cam." is not great. We need our QB upright.

When do you draft a starting T and name a year it has been better to draft an OT?  ROUND 1.  Little is what you get in round 2--a raw project. There is not a better year.  We are sitting perfectly to get the best OT in the best OT draft in years.  Drafting an OT in round one does not mean you are trashing the DL---they have something called "Round 2". 

We have 2 starting DTs--we are looking for rotational DTs this year.  Yes, Brown would be nice.  So would Blacklock in the second.  Maybe not as good as Brown, but maybe all we need.

 

[section543]

I’ve always wished we picked LT in the past, but hadn’t mocked any to us lately. I like your argument so I redid one but chose Becton instead if Wills. I also accidentally hit Divinity in R6.

• 221

  

  Stephen Sullivan

  , TE

  LSU

• 184

  

  Michael Divinity Jr.

  , LB

  LSU

• 152

  

  Shaquille Quarterman

  , LB

  Miami

• 148

  

  Javelin Guidry

  , CB

  Utah

• 113

  

  Leki Fotu

  , IDL

  Utah

• 69

  

  Cameron Dantzler

  , CB

  Mississippi State

• 38

  

  Ross Blacklock

  , IDL

  TCU

• 7

  

  Mekhi Becton

  , OT

  Louisville

[AU-panther]

5 hours ago, Verge said:

Could definitely see us trading back and still getting Wirfs or Beckton. 

I think if you went to that 11-12 range there is a very good chance at least one of Wirfs, Beckton, or Kinlaw is there.

I  would be perfectly happy with any of those 3, considering I'm getting potentially a second round pick out of it.

 

 

[WOW!!]

5 hours ago, MHS831 said:

To me, LT is an illusion right now---did we trade Turner to dump a bad contract and sign Okung as insurance for a season?  If we do not sign a LT, then he holds it down until Little's situation is more clear?  If that is the case, and we pass on a T now, we may never get the chance to pick from the cream of the crop again.  We are not drafting for now--we are drafting for the future.  However, signing Wills allows us to cut Okung and get the salary back--some $13m to spend on a free agent or two if needed.  Or we could use the money to extend Moton.  Now you have the 1-2 OT combo for the next 9-12 years.  

The more I think about it, the more I like it.

 

This can be said about any position... QB wanting ppl are saying the same thing.. "IF we don't get one now.. We might never get one".. I don't understand this logic.. As long as college and pro football exist there will always be chances to get players at any position...

[WOW!!]

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Counterpoint: Who caused us to LOSE the Broncos Super Bowl?  An offensive tackle.  I agree about the DL, but having players with experience picking up the QB after being sacked saying, "My bad, Cam." is not great. We need our QB upright.

When do you draft a starting T and name a year it has been better to draft an OT?  ROUND 1.  Little is what you get in round 2--a raw project. There is not a better year.  We are sitting perfectly to get the best OT in the best OT draft in years.  Drafting an OT in round one does not mean you are trashing the DL---they have something called "Round 2". 

We have 2 starting DTs--we are looking for rotational DTs this year.  Yes, Brown would be nice.  So would Blacklock in the second.  Maybe not as good as Brown, but maybe all we need.

 

2013 had 3 OT taking in the top 5 picks..

2014 had 4 in the top 20

2015 down year but 5 in the top 25

2016 good year 4 in the top 15..

2017 thru 2018 sucked..

Then last year everybody was screaming it was the OT draft of the decade...

The narrative on finding OT need to stop.. Its no different then alot of other positions..