Latest CBS mock

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, Peon Awesome said:

Agreed. I think Brown has a good chance to be a solid starter/borderline pro bowler for a decade and that'd be a successful draft pick no doubt (maybe our next Star Lotulelei). But the track record of top rated DTs that you so well demonstrated is not the most exciting (and Brown's measurables do not give much confidence he will buck the trend). And the likelihood of finding a similar player without much drop off in the 2nd round is much higher for Brown than Simmons. Comp for Simmons seems to be Derwin James except with more unparalleled athleticism and better college production. That profile suggests all pro/dpoy potential. I wouldn't be mad at a Brown pick but I'd be pretty darn excited for Simmons, and there aren't many potential options at 7 that I'd say that for. Seems like their floors are similar but Simmons ceiling is much higher.

The impact of a DT is often less in what he's producing on the stat sheet and more in what he's allowing those behind him and beside him to do because he's eating up that OL. Look what happened to our D when we lost Star. It's not a coincidence.

[Peon Awesome]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The impact of a DT is often less in what he's producing on the stat sheet and more in what he's allowing those behind him and beside him to do because he's eating up that OL. Look what happened to our D when we lost Star. It's not a coincidence.

I definitely agree with that point. I just think you're better off getting your space eater/run stopper in the 2nd and/or 3rd round since teams are naturally going to undervalue those players and you can still get a good one then. You're not going to find anyone like Simmons after the top 10. Ideally in this scenario, I'd take Simmons in the first, the top available corner in the 2nd, and a space eating DT in the 3rd (and probably again in day 3, perhaps with one of our 2 5ths). Our defense might actually look serviceable then.

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, Peon Awesome said:

I definitely agree with that point. I just think you're better off getting your space eater/run stopper in the 2nd and/or 3rd round since teams are naturally going to undervalue those players and you can still get a good one then. You're not going to find anyone like Simmons after the top 10. Ideally in this scenario, I'd take Simmons in the first, the top available corner in the 2nd, and a space eating DT in the 3rd (and probably again in day 3, perhaps with one of our 2 5ths). Our defense might actually look serviceable then.

You can get good *insert every position here* in the 2nd or 3rd if you get lucky and draft well. There's tons of good LBs throughout the league that were drafted after the 1st. 

I'm just big on building from the trenches out. If your lines aren't right your team isn't right.

[WOW!!]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The impact of a DT is often less in what he's producing on the stat sheet and more in what he's allowing those behind him and beside him to do because he's eating up that OL. Look what happened to our D when we lost Star. It's not a coincidence.

Example.. Ray Lewis had some down season when Sarguisa retired and then they got Nagta and he was back being dominate...

[WOW!!]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You can get good *insert every position here* in the 2nd or 3rd if you get lucky and draft well. There's tons of good LBs throughout the league that were drafted after the 1st. 

I'm just big on building from the trenches out. If your lines aren't right your team isn't right.

Trenches out has proven to be more successful method of building a team for consistency...

[Basbear]

Here is something to chew on.

Right now Simmons would start at WLB, SLB, MLB, SS, FS, and Nickle. 

Right now he would also get PLENTY of snaps in different scenarios at edge. He would even line up on a big WR or a spit out TE on goal-line and short yard matchups.

Lastly imagine CMC vs Simmons during repeated practices, talk about a battle. They would improve each other beyond elite level levels.  

 

[45catfan]

1 minute ago, Basbear said:

Here is something to chew on.

Right now Simmons would start at WLB, SLB, MLB, SS, FS, and Nickle. 

Right now he would also get PLENTY of snaps in different scenarios at edge. He would even line up on a big WR or a spit out TE on goal-line and short yard matchups.

Lastly imagine CMC vs Simmons during repeated practices, talk about a battle. They would improve each other beyond elite level levels.  

 

I still would take Brown or Okuda over Simmons.  I've said it before Simmons is a better athlete than football player.  Brown and Okuda have finite homes and are really good at them.  Trying to play chess with Simmons all over the field might be nice, but realistically if we have no pass rush or can't cover WRs, moving Simmons all over the field won't matter one iota.  He'll just be running around like a chicken with it's head cut off because the opposing offenses will be imposing their will on us.  Sure that may lead to Simmons having an insane number of tackles, but leaves our defense with the resistance of wet toilet paper.

[Basbear]

8 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

I still would take Brown or Okuda over Simmons.  I've said it before Simmons is a better athlete than football player.  Brown and Okuda have finite homes and are really good at them.  Trying to play chess with Simmons all over the field might be nice, but realistically if we have no pass rush or can't cover WRs, moving Simmons all over the field won't matter one iota.  He'll just be running around like a chicken with it's head cut off because the opposing offenses will be imposing their will on us.  Sure that may lead to Simmons having an insane number of tackles, but leaves our defense with the resistance of wet toilet paper.

Ill admit to loving Troy Polamalu play ball and Simmons could be a 2020 version (bigger, stronger, faster, smarter). Im honest, he doesnt seem to like contact like Troy or many other LBs. Rules keep changing and that maybe a good thing in a few.

If you want pass rush, Brown can aid that, just not be a lead dawg. Hes faaar more suited as a NFL run stuffer than rush DT. Another reason why I dropped him. He is more of a combo, but his NFL play should be shewed on the run part. Again I dont like spending top ten draft capital on LBs, CBs, or run stuffing DTs. Kinlaw seems to have the better top ten profile. Especially if you want Hurries, sacks, and pressure. Panthers need a whole defense too, Simmons or Brown can not fix that this year. You and others got Brown rated higher, me and others got Simmons.

Depending a a few things, I would bet Simmons has more numbers than Brown too. Not talking tackles either, Im talking sacks, pressures and pass defenses...  

[Icege]

18 hours ago, SOJA said:

I disagree, I think Hurney would love Simmons. I bet our big board is something like this 

1-Burrow

2-Young

3-Okudah

4-Simmons

5-Tua?

6-Kinlaw

7-Brown 

 

Okudah is kind of who I have my heart set on, I'm hoping Detroit throws a monkey wrench in all of this and draft Simmons at 3 instead of him

Isaiah Simmons fits that Rhule mold as well imo, it's just hard for me to justify picking him with such a need at DT & CB. It would be kinda neat tho to essentially have him on the field as the #3 LB, SS, or NB at any given moment  

[PleaseCutStewart]

On 4/6/2020 at 6:11 PM, Basbear said:

Personally its clearly Simmons. I did remember new DC saying one thing he wanted was "positionless" players and that is Simmons. Hes like a Queen on the chess board.  

We already have a poor man's positionless player in Shaq, we don't need a 2nd one right now.

Brown is probably the safest pick in this draft. The dude will be a dominant interior lineman that will be huge having beside KK to create that interior pressure that made us good in years past.

Interior dlineman that can rush the passer and stop the run are hard to find. Get Brown and worry about other positions later on in the draft

 

[Navy_football]

Remember our run defense before Starr with Fua and McClain? Remember our run defense after Starr? You need players that push back the line of scrimmage - actually you need them on both sides of the ball.

Brown is probably the more impactful pick for this team right now.

[RumHam]

absolute garbage

[Basbear]

19 hours ago, PleaseCutStewart said:

We already have a poor man's positionless player in Shaq, we don't need a 2nd one right now.

Brown is probably the safest pick in this draft. The dude will be a dominant interior lineman that will be huge having beside KK to create that interior pressure that made us good in years past.

Interior dlineman that can rush the passer and stop the run are hard to find. Get Brown and worry about other positions later on in the draft

 

Id say Young is the safest pick, tho I could see him becoming like Clowney. If brown does what he did in the SEC in NFL- he should be #1 pick. His profile and the huge increase in talent/strength will for sure test him. 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Basbear said:

Id say Young is the safest pick, tho I could see him becoming like Clowney. If brown does what he did in the SEC in NFL- he should be #1 pick. His profile and the huge increase in talent/strength will for sure test him. 

Young has been the far more consistent college player. In hindsight, that really down final college season should've been a big red flag on Clowney, but all people could remember was that one time he hit that Michigan RB really hard.