If we don’t trade down...Brown will be our pick.

[Toomers]

3 minutes ago, Jared Patterson said:

Also, if you actually look into what Rhule has been saying, he wants SPEED and versatility w an emphasis on speed. Simmons seems like the only guy to me we would stay at 7 and take. I guarantee Simmons is a top 3 player on our board. 

     Guaranteed? Why? Because a coach made a general comment during lying season? 
 

  

[WarPanthers89]

24 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

If Okudah is there I think he's the pick over Brown. I like Brown, but I think it's easier to find a run stuffing DT than it is to find an elite level CB. Simmons is tempting too, but of the 3, I think Okudah would make the most difference. Action Jackson as our top CB is a scary thought going into training camp, whenever that ends up being. 

Okudah would be a great pick and I would be thrilled if we got him as well, but make no mistake about it Brown is not just a run stuffing DT. He is an elite DT which is at the same value to me as an elite CB (who actually have the highest bust rate of 1st round picks), he blows up plays constantly including passing plays, and fills our number one need on the team (how many time did you cringe last year watching backup running backs break 20 yard gains on us)

[Toomers]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

All I care about are cap impacts. I don't care about what has to come out of Tepper's pocket. He can afford it.

   That is cap impacts. I would never bring up anything else. Like you, Tepper got plenty. 
 

 

   

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, Toomers said:

   That is cap impacts. I would never bring up anything else. Like you, Tepper got plenty. 
 

 

   

He's going to hit us for $17.4M this season no matter what. That's his dead cap number. His cap hit for the season is $19.4M. $13.1M is the actual pay he'll receive this season. That's the figure I couldn't possibly care less about. All that matters is $19.4M and $17.4M.

[WarPanthers89]

31 minutes ago, Jared Patterson said:

Im just surprised a lot of people are really high on Brown here. I thought I was higher than most on him. Heck I just heard Peter S. on fox say he believes Kinlaw will be taken over Brown. I just feel like what I am reading and hearing it seems like we could trade back and still get him. No way he is the pick if Simmons or Okudah is there. 

I don’t think anyone takes Kinlaw over Brown. Huge difference in production and impact when you watch the games. I remember the year experts were debating if we should pick Cam or Blaine Gabbert (with multiple picking Gabbert as the safer bet). No one can deny Kinlaw is an athletic freak at the position, but the tape does not lie. Kinlaw would be a perfect selection if we traded back. 

[Toomers]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

He's going to hit us for $17.4M this season no matter what. That's his dead cap number. His cap hit for the season is $19.4M. $13.1M is the actual pay he'll receive this season. That's the figure I couldn't possibly care less about. All that matters is $19.4M and $17.4M.

    So you are paying him 13M to make that 17.4 go down to 11M next year. Basically throwing away around 7M for a player that won’t be here next year anyhow. 
 

    

[pantherj]

I see a trade down coming. Rhule seems to be interested in grabbing as many guys who can fit his system as possible. With the 7th pick there will be a major prospect available and that will have teams on the phone to us.

[LinvilleGorge]

11 minutes ago, Toomers said:

    So you are paying him 13M to make that 17.4 go down to 11M next year. Basically throwing away around 7M for a player that won’t be here next year anyhow. 
 

    

If I'm Tepper, I can understand that line of thinking. I'm not. I'm a fan. Like I said, all I care about are the cap implications.

Even from the Tepper perspective, if healthy, do you think you can truly replace Short for $7M? I don't.

[Untouchable]

24 minutes ago, WarPanthers89 said:

I don’t think anyone takes Kinlaw over Brown. Huge difference in production and impact when you watch the games. I remember the year experts were debating if we should pick Cam or Blaine Gabbert (with multiple picking Gabbert as the safer bet). No one can deny Kinlaw is an athletic freak at the position, but the tape does not lie. Kinlaw would be a perfect selection if we traded back. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Kinlaw goes before Brown. To me they play different positions with Kinlaw playing the more valuable one and I can see teams drafting based on potential.

[Toomers]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

If I'm Tepper, I can understand that line of thinking. I'm not. I'm a fan. Like I said, all I care about are the cap implications.

Even from the Tepper perspective, if healthy, do you think you can truly replace Short for $7M? I don't.

It’s all cap implications. The 13M is his base salary. Not some buyout Tepper has a choice to pay without cap implications. 
 

   Yes, different view from your perspective. Understand that. And without using the dreaded “t-word”, I’m in The Who cares if you replace him this year. He’s decking and 30+. Not going to be here for the result. Why pay him anything more? 
 

  We are definitely coming from two different directions. If Butler can get 8M/yr, you would think Kk could bring a decent pick at 12.5M. from some team. 

[Pantherzack179812]

2 hours ago, Toomers said:

 Drafting Star, KK and Butler is the cause of this dumpster fire? That’s adorable......

  The bust even got 8M/yr somehow. 

The dumpster fire is drafting a position in the first round that is not that important. Maybe, just maybe... Drafting a legit 1st round corner instead of drafting 2 late rounders and using our 2nd on one would've made a difference. 

Bradberry was not ready to cover Julio and Mike Evans that year, the money we saved on Josh Norman we spent on Vernon Butler.

[ForJimmy]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I don't see Short as part of our foundation. Honestly, I think he's the biggest cap liability on the roster.

It’s good to have some proven vets as bridges. Maybe not foundation for KK, but I think he stays unless there is a deal too good to pass on. Brown and KK together, would be fun to watch...

[Toomers]

10 minutes ago, Pantherzack179812 said:

The dumpster fire is drafting a position in the first round that is not that important. Maybe, just maybe... Drafting a legit 1st round corner instead of drafting 2 late rounders and using our 2nd on one would've made a difference. 

Bradberry was not ready to cover Julio and Mike Evans that year, the money we saved on Josh Norman we spent on Vernon Butler.

  You mean the drafting of two players who took the DEF from 18th to 2nd in their first season. And helped Luke become POY. That position isn’t important? Sometimes I can’t tell if your just saying ignorant things for kicks or are actually that clueless. 
 

    So we spent Norman’s salary on Butler huh. How does that work? He was a draft pick. Same cost for any player selected and the money was already set aside for picks. So it’s not only wrong but flat out ridiculous. 
 

   Wanna know where that money went?

[SmokinwithWilly]

2 hours ago, pantherj said:

I see a trade down coming. Rhule seems to be interested in grabbing as many guys who can fit his system as possible. With the 7th pick there will be a major prospect available and that will have teams on the phone to us.

If we can move down to 9 with Jax for Okudah, or 12 possibly to Vegas for Hebert I'd be happy. Brown may still be there at 12, or Id be happy with a top OT. 

Played around early on first pick and managed to turn 7 into 3 first rounders. 7 for 12 and 19, then 12 for 22 and 25. Its possible by trade values, and we could fix quite a few holes. Only downside really would be all 3 would be up for contract at the same time.