Debunking TB's largest knock

[1of10Charnatives]

On 3/28/2020 at 9:02 AM, pantherj said:

The worst thing you can be in the NFL is an 8-8ish team. It's football limbo. We could be 8-8 for the next 7 years. It pushes you down the draft and prevents you from ever having an elite QB. You just end up with a "good enough" QB until the coaching staff is let go due to lack of progress.

In your estimation who are the 5 best QB's in the NFL right now and what was the draft position of the teams that drafted them?

[rodeo]

14 hours ago, Pantherzack179812 said:

I did prove what I said. "Teddy can't go deep." I provided 6 passes that show otherwise. 

A QB who practices with the 1s for the whole off-season probably throws more then that. 

the argument has never been "Teddy can't go deep," that's a mischaracterization of the criticism.

he has an air-yards per pass that is half the league average. whether he "can" go deep or not has never been anyone's position, the position is that he doesn't go deep often enough to be considered a good QB in the NFL.

[Davidson Deac II]

I think Bridgewater's arm strength is better than he is given credit for.  It could be that he has played on offenses that didn't like the deep ball very much, or that he just takes the checkdown more often than not.  That remains to be seen.

 

As much as I like Cam, one positive could be that if we are at 3rd and 1, we throw enough for the first down, and don't attempt a 30 yard downfield bomb.  Have seen that all to often over the last few years.  Not sure if it was a coaching decision, or Cam's, or some combination of the two, but it was frustrating at times

[pantherj]

12 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

In your estimation who are the 5 best QB's in the NFL right now and what was the draft position of the teams that drafted them?

When you're drafting lower you have to rely on other teams making an error in their evaluation of the QBs in that class, AND that your scouts have made the correct evaluation. When you draft at the top you only have to hope your scouts made the correct evaluation of the QB class. When we drafted #1 overall we selected Cam Newton. In later rounds we have drafted QBs like Pickles, Will Grier, Randy Fasani, Tony Pike, and Stefan LeFors.

Sometimes you can snag a gem later in the draft, like Tom Brady. Who the fock wants to count on that? Not me. But yes sometimes QB slips through the cracks, and it's not unreasonable to expect that the Panthers can find a great QB later in the draft.

[Moo Daeng]

4 minutes ago, pantherj said:

When you're drafting lower you have to rely on other teams making an error in their evaluation of the QBs in that class, AND that your scouts have made the correct evaluation. When you draft at the top you only have to hope your scouts made the correct evaluation of the QB class. When we drafted #1 overall we selected Cam Newton. In later rounds we have drafted QBs like Pickles, Will Grier, Randy Fasani, Tony Pike, and Stefan LeFors.

Sometimes you can snag a gem later in the draft, like Tom Brady. Who the fock wants to count on that? Not me. But yes sometimes QB slips through the cracks, and it's not unreasonable to expect that the Panthers can find a great QB later in the draft.

Sometimes? All the best current QBs were drafted later.  Mahomes at 10 is about as high as the too QBs were taken since Matt Ryan.

[pantherj]

7 minutes ago, Moo Daeng said:

Sometimes? All the best current QBs were drafted later.  Mahomes at 10 is about as high as the too QBs were taken since Matt Ryan.

Do you think Hurney is going to draft a great QB later in the draft?

[1of10Charnatives]

34 minutes ago, pantherj said:

When you're drafting lower you have to rely on other teams making an error in their evaluation of the QBs in that class, AND that your scouts have made the correct evaluation. When you draft at the top you only have to hope your scouts made the correct evaluation of the QB class. When we drafted #1 overall we selected Cam Newton. In later rounds we have drafted QBs like Pickles, Will Grier, Randy Fasani, Tony Pike, and Stefan LeFors.

Sometimes you can snag a gem later in the draft, like Tom Brady. Who the fock wants to count on that? Not me. But yes sometimes QB slips through the cracks, and it's not unreasonable to expect that the Panthers can find a great QB later in the draft.

So since you didn't answer the question, I'll repeat it. Who would you regard as the top 5 qb's in the NFL right now and at what draft position were they drafted?

[pantherj]

2 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

So since you didn't answer the question, I'll repeat it. Who would you regard as the top 5 qb's in the NFL right now and at what draft position were they drafted?

I don't feel like looking up QB draft positions for you. 

[Wes21]

On 3/28/2020 at 11:25 AM, *FreeFua* said:

Teddy is a game manager who will always go with his check down option when it’s open regardless if there’s an easy throw to be made 10 yards down field. That’s problem people have with Teddy.

And that video doesn’t exactly help prove the point you’re trying to make. Some of those (and there’s only 6 throws) aren’t even what people would consider “deep balls”. I’m willing to bet that those 6 throws were his only downfield completions last season which sums him up.
 

Now maybe Payton told Teddy not to lose games for them and Brady will ask him to be more aggressive. Can Teddy flip a switch? Who knows but it’s more than likely a no.

This is not the issue with Teddy, and you will find out.

Teddy has zero issue working the mid range throws.  He actually loves those throws.

[1of10Charnatives]

2 hours ago, pantherj said:

I don't feel like looking up QB draft positions for you. 

So the underlying point is this: most of the top qb's were not drafted in the first few spots in the draft. Going to the middle of the round doesn't lock you out of a shot at a good qb. Mahomes, Wilson, Aaron Rogers, Watson. Yes a higher draft pick gives you a better chance at the player you want, but luck and good scouting and evaluation are bigger factors than just getting yourself into the top ten. Any cursory review of the better qb's in the league will show this. For every Wentz there is a Drew Brees that didn't even go first round.

You probably didn't feel like looking up the info cause you knew it wouldn't support your position. It's not some monumental task but a few Googles. But either way I feel I've made my point. Lets just try to stay realistic about how bad going 8 and 8 is. I'm not a fan either, but it's not the end of the world.

[DeAngelo Beason]

Arm strength may be the most overrated measurement for a QB, within reason of course.  Everyone wants a guy that can hurl it 90 yards, and as we've seen time and time again, touch and accuracy are what really matter.

[djp14]

Joe Brady seems to think he can make the throws.

 

[lightsout]

3 minutes ago, djp14 said:

Joe Brady seems to think he can make the throws.

 

 

I keep saying it, nobody listens. Teddy executed the NO offense. This whole "he just dink and dunks" is people expecting a Madden offense or wanting the KC offense (which includes a lot of "dink and dunk"...to skill players in space...similar to what we do with CMC and Samuel and DJ....).

Teddy can throw deep. Teddy isn't asked to throw a ton deep. Teddy is asked to get the ball out quickly and accurately. So he did. And he did damn good doing that.

Teddy will execute Joe Brady's offense. The team gets a veteran QB that they KNOW can run Brady's offense without breaking the bank, and they have a couple years to find a QB of the future in the meantime. This is an absolute GREAT position for this team as a whole and people here are whiners because they'd rather have Cam. They can't divorce themselves from the Cam issue so they are stuck hating on Bridgewater. It's dumb. Same people who don't understand WHY a play or a player is good/bad. They just look at numbers and go "see, he can't throw it deep" without understanding HOW those numbers came to be.

[Wes21]

13 hours ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

So the underlying point is this: most of the top qb's were not drafted in the first few spots in the draft. Going to the middle of the round doesn't lock you out of a shot at a good qb. Mahomes, Wilson, Aaron Rogers, Watson. Yes a higher draft pick gives you a better chance at the player you want, but luck and good scouting and evaluation are bigger factors than just getting yourself into the top ten. Any cursory review of the better qb's in the league will show this. For every Wentz there is a Drew Brees that didn't even go first round.

You probably didn't feel like looking up the info cause you knew it wouldn't support your position. It's not some monumental task but a few Googles. But either way I feel I've made my point. Lets just try to stay realistic about how bad going 8 and 8 is. I'm not a fan either, but it's not the end of the world.

"For every Wentz there is a Drew Brees."  I'm not seeing it.  Here is a link to QBs and I'm going to put together a quick list of what I see as the best couple of QBs from each draft class.  Feel free to change any of the people I chose to highlight:

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

2019 - Kyler Murray 1st overall, Daniel Jones 6th overall

2018 - Baker Mayfield 1st overall, Lamar Jackson 32nd overall

2017 - Patrick Mahomes 10th overall, DeShaun Watson 12th overall

2016 - Jared Goff 1st overall, Carson Wentz 3rd overall, Dak Prescott 4th round

2015 - Jameis Winston 1st overall, Marcus Mariotta 2nd overall

2014 - Teddy Bridgewater 32nd overall, Jimmy Garoppolo 2nd round

2013 - the entire draft sucked

2012 - Andrew Luck 1st overall, Russell Wilson 3rd round

2011 - Cam Newton 1st overall, Andy Dalton 2nd round

2010 - Sam Bradford 1st overall

2009 - Matt Stafford 1st overall, Mark Sanchez 5th overall

2008 - Matt Ryan 3rd overall, Joe Flacco 18th overall

2007 - the entire draft sucked

2006 - Jay Cutler 11th overall

2005 - Alex Smith 1st overall, Aaron Rodgers 25th overall

2004 - Eli Manning 1st overall, Philip Rivers 4th overall, Ben Roethlisberger 11th overall

2003 - Carson Palmer 1st overall

2002 - the entire draft sucked, Ronald Curry switched to WR

2001 - Mike Vick 1st overall, Drew Brees 2nd round

2000 - Chad Pennington 18th overall, Tom Brady 6th round

1999 - Donovan McNabb 2nd overall, Daunte Culpepper 11th overall

1998 - Peyton Manning 1st overall, Matt Hasselbeck 6th round