Cam Newton: "They gave up on me"

[Bytes]

1 minute ago, beo said:

you really only look at surface level numbers dont you? 

"surface level numers" ? Tell me, where are your numbers to dispute what I said/

[Bytes]

27 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

You mention dual threat qbs and don’t mention Lamar? What sense does that make.

mahome is def not a dual threat, 4 rushing tds in his career lol Russel maybe so early on not so much lately. 

and 2018 pre injury disagrees about 2015 cam never coming back, and for cam he doesn’t need to be that maintain 2018 cam and he’ll be just fine 
 

Did I say Lamar wasnt a duel threat QB? I said "even the best of duel threat QBs look to throw first". I didnt add LJ because his sample size is too small to be considered "the best" IMO. After this year, where defenses would have had a year of tape to study him, you will know the truth. And 2015 Cam was 5 years ago. I have nothing that suggest that guy will come back. 

[beo]

Just now, Bytes said:

"surface level numers" ? Tell me, where are your numbers to dispute what I said/

have you ever considered that a qb running more would inherently lower their passing attempts, and therefore yards? or, that ryan has never had as many tds in a season as cam had in 2015 (which matters more than yards)? or that brees has only had one season with more tds than newton? with the logic you're presenting, brees is the greatest qb of all time. speaking of, the one season he had more tds, brees had 678  attempts to cam's 627 when you add both of their rushing and passing attempts together.  infact have you ever even realized how many more passing attempts per season these qbs you keep mentioning have than cam? if newton hypothetically attempted 132 more passes (the amount of times he carried the ball), to his total in 2015 of 495, that'd be 627 attempts. if you add his yards per attempt (7.8 that year) and multiply it by 132 (the number of rushing attempts), that'd mean he would've thrown for 4,829 yards and 45 tds. do you see now why comparing high volume passing numbers to a rushing qb is an extremely dishonest argument? you're comparing two different types of players. it's not a one off thing either, cam consistently has had 500 or less passing attempts throughout his career, while brees and ryan often break 600.

[Bytes]

11 minutes ago, beo said:

have you ever considered that a qb running more would inherently lower their passing attempts, and therefore yards? or, that ryan has never had as many tds in a season as cam had in 2015 (which matters more than yards)? or that brees has only had one season with more tds than newton? with the logic you're presenting, brees is the greatest qb of all time. speaking of, the one season he had more tds, brees had 678  attempts to cam's 627 when you add both of their rushing and passing attempts together.  infact have you ever even realized how many more passing attempts per season these qbs you keep mentioning have than cam? if newton hypothetically attempted 132 more passes (the amount of times he carried the ball), to his total in 2015 of 495, that'd be 627 attempts. if you add his yards per attempt (7.8 that year) and multiply it by 132 (the number of rushing attempts), that'd mean he would've thrown for 4,829 yards and 45 tds. do you see now why comparing high volume passing numbers to a rushing qb is an extremely dishonest argument? you're comparing two different types of players. it's not a one off thing either, cam consistently has had 500 or less passing attempts throughout his career, while brees and ryan often break 600.

Yes. Its an indisputable fact Brees statistically is the greates QB of all time.Cam has ONE season with more TDs , but collectively Brees and Ryan have OVERALL a more than a decade more better seasons.Cam had ONE great season. They have MANY. They have consistently had MANY. 

THOSE ARE FACTS. NOT CONJECTURE,  NOT OPINION, AND NOT CAM HATE. JUST FACTS. Thats why they will be in the HOF and Cam wont.

[beo]

4 minutes ago, Bytes said:

Yes. Its an indisputable fact Brees statistically is the greates QB of all time.Cam has ONE season with more TDs , but collectively Brees and Ryan have OVERALL a more than a decade more better seasons.Cam had ONE great season. They have MANY. They have consistently had MANY. 

THOSE ARE FACTS. NOT CONJECTURE,  NOT OPINION, AND NOT CAM HATE. JUST FACTS. Thats why they will be in the HOF and Cam wont.

idk how to help you then tbh, you're only going off of yards with no context. brees isn't even top 10 in my own personal opinion, but nobody who actually watches football puts him as the best. top 3 at highest. if you're just gonna keep ignoring my points and falling back on passing yards and surface level, context free numbers then im not really interested in continuing this conversation. cam won't not be in the HOF because of what an overrated stat says. the reason why is because he was dinged up a lot and wasnt as consistent as those two as a result. if he had won SB50 he'd have a case even with him not living up to his potential. ryan isnt even great, even a falcons fan would tell you that him making the HOF isn't near a guarantee. that's my last post unless you take time to watch film and learn more about the sport, and come back with a response that isn't just muh passing yards and stats, while simultaneously calling all context an excuse.

[Bytes]

3 minutes ago, beo said:

idk how to help you then tbh, you're only going off of yards with no context. brees isn't even top 10 in my own personal opinion, but nobody who actually watches football puts him as the best. top 3 at highest. if you're just gonna keep ignoring my points and falling back on passing yards and surface level, context free numbers then im not really interested in continuing this conversation. cam won't not be in the HOF because of what an overrated stat says. the reason why is because he was dinged up a lot and wasnt as consistent as those two as a result. if he had won SB50 he'd have a case even with him not living up to his potential. ryan isnt even great, even a falcons fan would tell you that him making the HOF isn't near a guarantee. that's my last post unless you take time to watch film and learn more about the sport, and come back with a response that isn't just muh passing yards and stats, while simultaneously calling all context an excuse.

Yep we shouldnt use numbers to determine whose best. We should use what ifs, injury excuses and highlight films to detetmine whos best. After all its not what you do. Its what you look like you would have done. 

[beo]

2 minutes ago, Bytes said:

Yep we shouldnt use numbers to determine whose best. We should use what ifs, injury excuses and highlight films to detetmine whos best. After all its not what you do. Its what you look like you would have done. 

oh hey you took my argument out of context for the 70th time, neat. never said any of what you just said.

[Delhomme2Muhammad]

2 hours ago, Moo Daeng said:

Why would the team operate in Cam's best interest and against their own? Letting him go early would have been completely against the teams interest. 

Because it's not in their best interests.

For all the effort everyone on here tries to diminish the value of Newton, every player on the Panthers roster and the rest of the NFL knows that Cam Newton is the best player in Panthers history. Those players and their agents have just seen about the current regime has treated Newton. No one is going to forget. Even if it's not acknowledged, it'll be in the minds of the players/agents when it comes to discussing a contract.

For supposedly wanting to build a new culture, the current regime/coaching have set themselves back a few years. It will not be something you can quantify.

[Cpt slay a ho]

2 hours ago, Bytes said:

Yes. Lamar is a duel threat. And yes Mohomes IS a duel threat. He CHOOSES not to run. He doesnt want to run because he doesnt want to end up with concussions, or shoulder injuries, or lysfranc injuries. 

You are losing me bucko, Patty Mahomes dislocated his knee doing a qb sneak....he’s not a dual threat if you choose not to run...that defeats the purpose of the word “dual” threat. So to say he chooses not to run but not be aware that he dislocated his knee on one of the routine qb run play calls of all time is almost satire 

[Cpt slay a ho]

2 hours ago, Bytes said:

Did I say Lamar wasnt a duel threat QB? I said "even the best of duel threat QBs look to throw first". I didnt add LJ because his sample size is too small to be considered "the best" IMO. After this year, where defenses would have had a year of tape to study him, you will know the truth. And 2015 Cam was 5 years ago. I have nothing that suggest that guy will come back. 

How can you say Lamar’s sample size is too small and have Mahomes In your original list ? Dude just won a mvp, he’s the best current dual threat qb hands down that’s not even a debate.

You can have all the tape you want, dual threat qbs are hard to scheme for, it’s a nightmare. Again 2015 cam isn’t needed, 2018 is and was on pace to perform passing wise, better than 2015  
 

[kungfoodude]

4 hours ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

You mention dual threat qbs and don’t mention Lamar? What sense does that make.

mahome is def not a dual threat, 4 rushing tds in his career lol Russel maybe so early on not so much lately. 

and 2018 pre injury disagrees about 2015 cam never coming back, and for cam he doesn’t need to be that maintain 2018 cam and he’ll be just fine 
 

Because modern QB's are so much better athletes than in the past people miss the distinction between "mobile" QB's and "rushing" QB's. 

Wilson, McNabb, Mahomes: Mobile

Jackson, Cam, Vick, Allen: Rushing

 

[WarHeel]

3 hours ago, Delhomme2Muhammad said:

Because it's not in their best interests.

For all the effort everyone on here tries to diminish the value of Newton, every player on the Panthers roster and the rest of the NFL knows that Cam Newton is the best player in Panthers history. Those players and their agents have just seen about the current regime has treated Newton. No one is going to forget. Even if it's not acknowledged, it'll be in the minds of the players/agents when it comes to discussing a contract.

For supposedly wanting to build a new culture, the current regime/coaching have set themselves back a few years. It will not be something you can quantify.

Steve Smith, Julius Peppers, and Luke Kuechly say hello.

[Delhomme2Muhammad]

Those are the 3 you say when you have a sore butt over Newton.

[mrcompletely11]

9 hours ago, Mr Mojo Risin said:

Derek Carr must be the worst Quarterback of ALL TIME then, dude's been in the league 6 years and hasn't had a winning season.

All he's done in those 6 seasons is complete 64% of his passes for 22,793 yards 143 Tds 62 INTs with a 90.7 QBR.

Judging a Qb strictly by Wins and Losses has got to be the silliest thing someone can do, BUT it is something I expect a CASUAL football fan to do, (you know the fans that don't really have a high football IQ) so I totally understand why you think that way, but it's not a very intelligent way of thinking.

Its all about wins and losses.  Godalmighty dude