Cam Newton: "They gave up on me"

[panthers55]

26 minutes ago, raleigh-panther said:

You know as much as I do

what I know is this was done in a chicken poo manner. 

They did him no favors waiting until now. None 

Can wasn't declared  healthy until.recently so no one had any interest until he was totally healthy. Then they shopped him but got little interest. Then they found that there was going to be a number of QBs available like Brady who was unexpected. Bridgewater was projected to Tampa before Brady decided to leave. And we jumped in and landed him when they took Brady. It wasn't a conspiracy or plan to screw him. It worked out this way.   

[Cpt slay a ho]

5 minutes ago, OneBadCat said:

All it takes is to not be a simpleton and have an IQ over 80 to understand that Cams rushing stats affect his passing stats. He’s not usually throwing on first down. His passes have more meaning and aren’t inflated by easy completions. It’s also been more advantageous for Cam to run for the small gains and conversions because it’s the smartest play to make instead of throwing to shoddy WRs.

Really is that simple, the qbs he wants to compare him to had hof wrs in there prime throughout there career. If you bring up 2018 than people want to say “all he did was check down to cmc” like half the nfl qbs don’t inflate there completion percentage by doing so, and like cmc isn’t a weapon. It’s going all around the world to try and prove a point that does not exist, as a qb cam is top 10 in the league and was regarded as top 10 majority of his career in Carolina  

[Bytes]

Just now, OneBadCat said:

Come on man

• oh.. my bad... its not about production. Its not about winning and losing. So what's it about again??

[Bytes]

2 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

Really is that simple, the qbs he wants to compare him to had hof wrs in there prime throughout there career. If you bring up 2018 than people want to say “all he did was check down to cmc” like half the nfl qbs don’t inflate there completion percentage by doing so, and like cmc isn’t a weapon. It’s going all around the world to try and prove a point that does not exist, as a qb cam is top 10 in the league and was regarded as top 10 majority of his career in Carolina  

i didnt say he check down. I just compared to his peers he was not as production (1) . And Teddy's year 2019 was not as bad as people try to make it out to be (2). All factual. Not trying to offend anyone. And no statistically Cam in is NOT in the 10 outside of rushing in any category. Zero. Period.

[beo]

13 minutes ago, Bytes said:

Even if you add in cams rushing stats hes not on par with conventional QBs. He would have to avg 1000 rushing withhis existing passing numbers a year to be on par with convention qbs. Cam has 4k+ total in a season twice. Comparable Matt Ryan has 8 consecutive years of 4k passing.

But lets back up... Are you saying Cam was a good QB? IF so I agree. Entertaining? Absolutely! Are saying Cam was HOF/elite? I draw the line there. And theres nothing wrong with. Calm down.

what do you consider elite? every year he was healthy he absolutely was. im not sure if you're just outright ignoring the context but you really only seem to look at surface level numbers. also again going off of these extremely cherrypicked and surface level stats, cam has had more than 4,000 total yards in 2011, 2012, 2015, and 2017. he wouldve almost certainly had 4,000 total yards in 2014 (3,666 in 14 games) and 2016 (3,859 in 15 games) if not for missing a few starts, and wouldve in 18 if not for the shoulder reaggrevation (missed starts for that year as well.)  even if we're generous and remove 2018, that's still 6 out of 8 years of him starting including the ones he was hurt in. these qbs you keep rambling on about havent had to deal with many injuries because they have a good offensive line and havent been openly headhunted, then again to you that's merely an "excuse" lol.

 

3 minutes ago, Bytes said:

Quick! Tell me how many all pro WRs and all pro  Olinemen Jemarcus Russell played with? He should be in the HOF because he was super talented and surrounded by scrubs! You see the point? At some point its about production! No excuses. Either you do or you dont.

not only did you take his argument totally out of context and strawman with a vastly inferior player, but that last part is hilarious lol. "dude just ignore the context man, he isnt producing an arbitrary milestone of numbers even though all of his film suggests he would do otherwise if he had any form of a supporting cast!!!!"

[beo]

Just now, Bytes said:

i didnt say he check down. I just compared to his peers he was not as production (1) . And Teddy's year 2019 was not as bad as people try to make it out to be (2). All factual. Not trying to offend anyone. And no statistically Cam in is NOT in the 10 outside of rushing in any category. Zero. Period.

have you ever considered that cam's passing totals are deflated by the 800 yards he lost to drops in 2016? and that he runs more which inherently would lower the numbers anyway? 

[OneBadCat]

1 minute ago, Bytes said:

• oh.. my bad... its not about production. Its not about winning and losing. So what's it about again??

On their best day, who would you pick to be your QB Matt Ryan or Cam Newton?

 

4 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

Really is that simple, the qbs he wants to compare him to had hof wrs in there prime throughout there career. If you bring up 2018 than people want to say “all he did was check down to cmc” like half the nfl qbs don’t inflate there completion percentage by doing so, and like cmc isn’t a weapon. It’s going all around the world to try and prove a point that does not exist, as a qb cam is top 10 in the league and was regarded as top 10 majority of his career in Carolina  

Exactly. Like Candyass Matt Ryan or Drew check down Brees. Has anyone ever thought that maybe these guys are the ones that overrated? Sure they check down and inflate their stats so arm chair madden QBs can crown them as best in the league. But how many times have we seen them both choke in the clutch. 

Kirk Cousins has amazing stats. Yet everyone knows he’s not a franchise QB. With a guy like Cam is just doesn’t matter as much because the impact and influence he has on the game isn’t totally tallied in the box score.

[Cpt slay a ho]

6 minutes ago, Bytes said:

i didnt say he check down. I just compared to his peers he was not as production (1) . And Teddy's year 2019 was not as bad as people try to make it out to be (2). All factual. Not trying to offend anyone. And no statistically Cam in is NOT in the 10 outside of rushing in any category. Zero. Period.

What peers are you comparing him to? Cause teddy ain’t his peer nor ever will be lol 

[OneBadCat]

10 minutes ago, Bytes said:

i didnt say he check down. I just compared to his peers he was not as production (1) . And Teddy's year 2019 was not as bad as people try to make it out to be (2). All factual. Not trying to offend anyone. And no statistically Cam in is NOT in the 10 outside of rushing in any category. Zero. Period.

So Cams supposed to have consistently  top 10 passing stats on top of his great  rushing stats in order for you to recognize him. So he literally would need the ball in his hands every single play passing or running. 
 

They go hand in hand. Cams not taking lay up throws. He’s running for them. And if first down isn’t successful then he’s consistently throwing in 2nd or 3rd and long. So he has less attempts at short yard gains. Every pass in our offense was do or die until Norv Turner got there. And when he did Cam was on a roll before injury.  It’s not hard to understand.

[Cpt slay a ho]

4 minutes ago, OneBadCat said:

On their best day, who would you pick to be your QB Matt Ryan or Cam Newton?

 

Exactly. Like Candyass Matt Ryan or Drew check down Brees. Has anyone ever thought that maybe these guys are the ones that overrated? Sure they check down and inflate their stats so arm chair madden QBs can crown them as best in the league. But how many times have we seen them both choke in the clutch. 

Kirk Cousins has amazing stats. Yet everyone knows he’s not a franchise QB. With a guy like Cam is just doesn’t matter as much because the impact and influence he has on the game isn’t totally tallied in the box score.

all pocket qbs inflate there stats checking down, and you know why ? Because a dual threat qb isn’t going to check down he will scramble for the same or more yards a check down would get, this notion that cam, a guy who broke Peyton Manning’s rookie passing record(before luck came along).made it this far without being considered a above average passer is asinine and a narrative that needs to be put to bed

[Moo Daeng]

Why would the team operate in Cam's best interest and against their own? Letting him go early would have been completely against the teams interest. 

[Bytes]

7 minutes ago, beo said:

what do you consider elite? every year he was healthy he absolutely was. im not sure if you're just outright ignoring the context but you really only seem to look at surface level numbers. also again going off of these extremely cherrypicked and surface level stats, cam has had more than 4,000 total yards in 2011, 2012, 2015, and 2017. he wouldve almost certainly had 4,000 total yards in 2014 (3,666 in 14 games) and 2016 (3,859 in 15 games) if not for missing a few starts, and wouldve in 18 if not for the shoulder reaggrevation (missed starts for that year as well.)  even if we're generous and remove 2018, that's still 6 out of 8 years of him starting including the ones he was hurt in. these qbs you keep rambling on about havent had to deal with many injuries because they have a good offensive line and havent been openly headhunted, then again to you that's merely an "excuse" lol.

 

not only did you take his argument totally out of context and strawman with a vastly inferior player, but that last part is hilarious lol. "dude just ignore the context man, he isnt producing an arbitrary milestone of numbers even though all of his film suggests he would do otherwise if he had any form of a supporting cast!!!!"

OK reset. What are you saying ("the argument").. BTW "would have" doesnt count. And thats the point I'm trying to make. You can say that about anyone. IT DIDNT HAPPEN THOUGH. He has played 9 seasons. Not 8. He got payed for 9 seasons right??? And who is the vastly inferior player that you are speaking of? 

[beo]

7 minutes ago, Bytes said:

OK reset. What are you saying ("the argument").. BTW "would have" doesnt count. And thats the point I'm trying to make. You can say that about anyone. IT DIDNT HAPPEN THOUGH. He has played 9 seasons. Not 8. He got payed for 9 seasons right??? And who is the vastly inferior player that you are speaking of? 

good idea to back up a bit, here's my points. jamarcus russell was the inferior player i was talking about, and cam  started for 8 seasons which i originally said in my post. no need to try to bend it to fit your argument. speaking of that, my argument is that even playing by your extremely naive surface level stats, cam statistically blows bridgewater out of the water. arguing as to why it's a bad and intellectually dishonest idea to go off of surface level passing yardage numbers when discussing cam newton is an entirely different discussion.

cam was a top 10 qb in 2015, 2017 and the first half of 2018, potentially 2011-12 as well (im not sure on this so i won't claim it). you could argue he was in 16 too. you are ignoring context seemingly because you see it as an excuse. if you're saying that he never lived up to his maximum potential, then we can agree there. he shouldve been better (that includes statistically), but was held back by poor coaching (a bottom 3 OC in football), having nothing around him besides greg post 2013, and having a bad line which caused him to get hurt and injured. the idea though, that the facts above are just 'excuses' and that he wasn't in a particularly bad situation is pure bs.

 i think on a team like atlanta he would've been a perrenial top 3 qb. if you put one of these elite qbs you talk about such as matt ryan on the 2016 panthers in the same set of circumstances he'd get destroyed. the reason people are mad that he's now gone is because he finally had a good receiving core and supporting cast around him (besides the poo line still but whatever) for the only time in his career besides 2013 and 2011, and wasn't given a chance to play out his contract. numbers do not show the full story. he did more with less. is he a hall of famer? no, but he could've been if he wasn't in the worst situation of any franchise QB in the NFL in the timespan he played in imo.

[Bytes]

8 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

all pocket qbs inflate there stats checking down, and you know why ? Because a dual threat qb isn’t going to check down he will scramble for the same or more yards a check down would get, this notion that cam, a guy who broke Peyton Manning’s rookie passing record(before luck came along).made it this far without being considered a above average passer is asinine and a narrative that needs to be put to bed

Yep. they shouldnt check down, they should hold on to the ball and take a sack OR force the ball and throw an INT. Even the best mobile QBs, look to pass the first and foremost. Look at Russell Wilson, Patrick Mohomes, DeShawn Watson. And yes Cam broke Peyton's rookie record, but it's been broken twice since then, AND Cam never reached that mark again. That's saying something in of itself.