Panthers *ARE NOT* tanking

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

That's it, pretty much. It is hard to "trust the process" with Marty still around. Tepper and Rhule have little to no track record of being able to identify NFL caliber talent. 

We are looking a bad known and two unknowns. Not exactly something that is confidence inspiring. 

So you think the guys we picked the last 2 years were Marty guys or Rivera guys? How about this year? You think all the players we have brought in with Temple or Baylor backgrounds were Marty guys or Rhule guys? Sure I get the buck stops here at the GM office but to assume that Marty is pulling the strings at this point is pretty naive at this point. This retooling is clearly Rhule's plan. Marty is simply trying to get Matt the guys he wants like he did with Rivera and Fox before him.  That is Marty's job.

As for Rhule's track record in the NFL, he has none. That could be good or bad. Most reasonable folks are taking a wait and see attitude with plenty of time to complain once the season starts.

[BrianS]

9 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

That means, to me, he is a good coach in terms of actually coaching the player, that really has nothing to do with coming up with a game plan and actually calling plays

Not true.  The play calling was absolutely affected.

Perhaps Brady didn't call the plays, but to say he wasn't involved in game planning is silly.  It shows in the yards per attempt and air yards per attempt.  If all Joe Brady did was coach up Burrow, maybe the completion percentage goes up.  That could be coaching.  Maybe interception rate goes down.  Sure, that could be coaching up better decision making.

But it takes a change in philosophy at a deep level to push things like air yards up as dramatically as that.  That's 100% what Joe Brady provided to LSU.  A deep change in philosophy and a deeper more diverse playbook to call from.

Edit:

Look at these:

Ja'Marr Chase, 2018

Ja'Marr Chase, 2019

The dude went from 13.6 yards per catch to 21 yards per catch!  That is a philosophical change of an incredible proportion.  He didn't suddenly become 50% better at YAC.  The dude was running deeper routes consistently.

You're right, there is no evidence that Joe Brady called plays for LSU.  There is also no evidence that he didn't have input.  However, you cannot say he had nothing to do with the massive philosophical changes that occurred at LSU between 2018 and 2019.

[panthers55]

4 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

That means, to me, he is a good coach in terms of actually coaching the player, that really has nothing to do with coming up with a game plan and actually calling plays

That is pretty ridiculous as a rejoinder. Obviously if his quarterback suddenly plays much better it is a pretty sure sign of good coaching which is predicated by good play calling and a good game plan.

No quarterback can put up good numbers with poor playcalling and a poor game plan. That should be self evident.

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, stbugs said:

It’s laughable how some people think that improving the offense will overcome the D. Our 2019 D makes the SB champs mediocre. It makes our 15-1 team mediocre as well.

Our D talent just got shredded and the D was legitimately awful. Just like our OL. Our OL and D were comparable only to Miami and they got rid of Pouncey, Tunsil and Fitzpatrick. We signed Irvin, McCoy and Paradis. We just jettisoned Luke, Bradberry, Addison, McCoy, Poe, Butler, Irvin, Reid and Cockrell. I understand how they contributed to the issues but damn it could get ugly. Giving up 30-35 points per game could easily be normal with a 50 banger here and there.

Worst case scenario here is that the offensive moves give Brady the tools he needs to field a good offense and our defense is the anchor around our neck that keeps us from notching Ws. That good offense gives Brady the platform he needs to land a head coaching gig in the next year or two and we never get to truly benefit from our assumed offensive wunderkind. We already watched that same situation play out once with Chud.

[Pantherzack179812]

Tampa bays defense is just as bad as ours.

 

Father time is ready to take Brees and TB.

I'm more concerned about the Falcons then the saints or Bucs.

The bucs last year were not a QB away from a SB and Kyle fugging Allen put 37 on them.

 

Welcome to an offensive leauge, the SB champion had the 18th best defense. If we can field the 24th defense, there's no reason this team can't be a 7 seed at 9-7 on wild card weekend.

We finished 5-11 last year, but Ron likely would've eeked out 7-9. The offense has only gotten better. Defense don't matter anyway, they'll just PI and roughing the passer on us 100X a day. We see how the NFL values teams who play defense, Cam is in a body bag from missed calls.

[TheSpecialJuan]

2 hours ago, The Huddler said:

im in the minority that is very excited and fully endorses what this regime is doing. 

same

[RASTAN66]

Hurney has no autonomous power whatsoever. 

All the player decisions are made by jointly by Rhule & Hurney and blessed by Tepper before execution - or - made collectively amongst the three of them.

Marty wont be ushered out anytime soon, Tepper values his input.

[stbugs]

11 minutes ago, Pantherzack179812 said:

Tampa bays defense is just as bad as ours.

 

Father time is ready to take Brees and TB.

I'm more concerned about the Falcons then the saints or Bucs.

The bucs last year were not a QB away from a SB and Kyle fugging Allen put 37 on them.

 

Welcome to an offensive leauge, the SB champion had the 18th best defense. If we can field the 24th defense, there's no reason this team can't be a 7 seed at 9-7 on wild card weekend.

We finished 5-11 last year, but Ron likely would've eeked out 7-9. The offense has only gotten better. Defense don't matter anyway, they'll just PI and roughing the passer on us 100X a day. We see how the NFL values teams who play defense, Cam is in a body bag from missed calls.

18th? KC gave up 308 points which was 7th best. So they had a great offense and gave up the 7th fewest points. We gave up 470 points. We gave up 10 points per game more. I don’t know what numbers you are looking b at but KC’s D was way better than ours. Giving up 19 points per game is a wee bit different than 29 points per game. Only one offense in the league out scored our D.

It’s laughable when people say defense doesn’t matter. Is Teddy Mahomes? Nope, so let’s not pretend he can score more than our D. We’d have to vastly improve and we just lost one of the best defensive players in the league along with another 5-6 starters.

[mrcompletely11]

28 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

That is pretty ridiculous as a rejoinder. Obviously if his quarterback suddenly plays much better it is a pretty sure sign of good coaching which is predicated by good play calling and a good game plan.

No quarterback can put up good numbers with poor playcalling and a poor game plan. That should be self evident.

He wasn’t the play caller or do the game plan. 

[Teddy Time]

They're not tanking.  doesn't mean they're not going to have a losing record but it's certainly not on purpose.  This ain't the 2019 Dolphins trading away every talented player they had and replacing them with thin air.

I do think the defense is rebuilding, almost entirely, but the offense is being transformed, fortified, and strengthened.  I believe they expect the offense to be strong this year.

[Teddy Time]

1 hour ago, RASTAN66 said:

I think we bottom out at 8-8 this year. 

Until the draft and we see the boys in action this summer, 8-8 is a fair starting point for sure, expectation-wise.

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, Pantherzack179812 said:

Tampa bays defense is just as bad as ours.

 

Father time is ready to take Brees and TB.

I'm more concerned about the Falcons then the saints or Bucs.

The bucs last year were not a QB away from a SB and Kyle fugging Allen put 37 on them.

 

Welcome to an offensive leauge, the SB champion had the 18th best defense. If we can field the 24th defense, there's no reason this team can't be a 7 seed at 9-7 on wild card weekend.

We finished 5-11 last year, but Ron likely would've eeked out 7-9. The offense has only gotten better. Defense don't matter anyway, they'll just PI and roughing the passer on us 100X a day. We see how the NFL values teams who play defense, Cam is in a body bag from missed calls.

You think Teddy Bridgewater is going to carry a 24th ranked defense to the playoffs?

Oh wee mayne.

[gakonline]

3 hours ago, hepcat said:

They may be trying not to tank but that doesn’t meant they won’t anyway

With all the moves the Panthers have made so far, there is no way they are tanking. 

If the Panthers pull a Miami Dolphins next season and start trading all the star players before the trade deadline, we can start the tanking talk. 

[panthers55]

35 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Worst case scenario here is that the offensive moves give Brady the tools he needs to field a good offense and our defense is the anchor around our neck that keeps us from notching Ws. That good offense gives Brady the platform he needs to land a head coaching gig in the next year or two and we never get to truly benefit from our assumed offensive wunderkind. We already watched that same situation play out once with Chud.

 Chud was far from a great offensive coach. He flamed out as a head coach and was last an offensive coordinator for the Colts in 2017. If he was so great why isn't he a OC anywhere with all the coaching changes?